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wideband commander - 9/4/2008 2:17:34 PM

bentley_owner

Posts: 38
Joined: 8/12/2006
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can anyone help with tunning with a wbc and powercomander on my 800. maybe a step by step run threw.

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Post #: 1

RE: wideband commander - 9/4/2008 3:19:25 PM

bentley_owner

Posts: 38
Joined: 8/12/2006
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ANY ONE

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(in reply to bentley_owner)

Post #: 2

RE: wideband commander - 9/4/2008 3:51:50 PM

dirtdiggler25

Posts: 312
Joined: 9/11/2007
From: Semmes, AL
Status: offline

Dont know how to do it with a wideband but here's a link on how to do it without one MaD Basic Fuel Injection Tuning Guide Without a Wideband PM JohnCannon. He's one of the best tuners out there and thats what he uses to tune them.

_____________________________

08 TEAM GREEN Brute
853 Big Bore (Xtreme Racing)
Hot Cams
Custom Center Snorkels
Power Commander III
HMF Exhaust
28" S!lverbacks
ITP SS212 Wheels
EPI Xtreme Clutch Kit
Highlifter 2" Lift

03 450 Forman S (SOLD)
Custom Sorkel
Dynojet Jet Kit
K&N Air Filter w/Outerwear Prefilter
2" Bracket Lift
28" ITP 589's
ITP Chrome Bullet Holes

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(in reply to bentley_owner)

Post #: 3

RE: wideband commander - 9/4/2008 6:48:33 PM

bentley_owner

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Joined: 8/12/2006
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I e-mailed john cannon threw his own web sight but never got any responce.

_____________________________

Rotax 800 H.O. V-Twin ,RW 12:1 pistons,DG/Chapman heads,DG racing cams,RW full race exhaust,power camandor,LCD screen, removed racks,E36R Elkas,26"Terracross on black 14" SS108's,K&N,Moded airbox,AC black racing front bumper,Dalton clutch kit

(in reply to dirtdiggler25)

Post #: 4

RE: wideband commander - 9/4/2008 7:35:40 PM

muddyfuzzy

Posts: 1216
Joined: 1/24/2008
From: Deer Park, Texas
Status: offline

mr. cannon is a busy man, he's out turning fast bikes into REAL FAST bikes. he did my wife's 420 and now it's cherry. he was also kind enough to show me the ropes with it. it's really not something that you can explain in a post. it's actually alot more simple than i thought. can't expect the man to give up all his trade secrets, that would put him out of business.

_____________________________

MINE-08'outty800max-xt/lawed with28"skinnys/ snorked/w2"intake/radiator relocated
"Power down in the hole"

WIFE'S-07'trx420fm/uni/lawed with 28" skinnys/custom snorked/supertrapp mudslinger/high lifter outlaw clutch kit/dynojet pcIII power commander(tuned by "THE JOHN CANNON")

(in reply to bentley_owner)

Post #: 5

RE: wideband commander - 9/4/2008 8:52:55 PM

matprice

Posts: 1464
Joined: 2/11/2008
From: waveland, mississippi
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its not really somthing you can just explain it takes time and practice to tune.... first thing you know how to weld ?

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Mat Price
BitMore Performance Race Team

mine BITMORE TUNED
2007 Can Am 800 Outlander

outy_girlprice (hers)BITMORE TUNED
2007 outlander 800 xt

Team BITMORE PERFORMANCE MYSPACE
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Post #: 6

RE: wideband commander - 9/4/2008 8:55:53 PM

bentley_owner

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Joined: 8/12/2006
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yes, I can weld. not looking to take all his secrets just looking to get an idea of the steps to actualy doing it.

< Message edited by bentley_owner -- 9/4/2008 8:57:35 PM >

_____________________________

Rotax 800 H.O. V-Twin ,RW 12:1 pistons,DG/Chapman heads,DG racing cams,RW full race exhaust,power camandor,LCD screen, removed racks,E36R Elkas,26"Terracross on black 14" SS108's,K&N,Moded airbox,AC black racing front bumper,Dalton clutch kit

(in reply to matprice)

Post #: 7

RE: wideband commander - 9/4/2008 9:06:19 PM

matprice

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From: waveland, mississippi
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if it was me i would pay the man to tune my stuff and ask a bunch of questions and pay very close attention.... understand the concept of what your trying to accomplish and you will understand how to tune.... its allot like trying to fix an electrical problem and having no knowledge of how electricity works

_____________________________

Mat Price
BitMore Performance Race Team

mine BITMORE TUNED
2007 Can Am 800 Outlander

outy_girlprice (hers)BITMORE TUNED
2007 outlander 800 xt

Team BITMORE PERFORMANCE MYSPACE
http://www.myspace.com/bitmore

http://www.myspace.com/matpricemusic
http://www.youtube.com/mprice75

(in reply to bentley_owner)

Post #: 8

RE: wideband commander - 9/4/2008 9:51:58 PM

bentley_owner

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Joined: 8/12/2006
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I would pay the man but I live in wisconsin and that would be a long drive.

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Rotax 800 H.O. V-Twin ,RW 12:1 pistons,DG/Chapman heads,DG racing cams,RW full race exhaust,power camandor,LCD screen, removed racks,E36R Elkas,26"Terracross on black 14" SS108's,K&N,Moded airbox,AC black racing front bumper,Dalton clutch kit

(in reply to matprice)

Post #: 9

RE: wideband commander - 9/4/2008 10:06:25 PM

muddyfuzzy

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Joined: 1/24/2008
From: Deer Park, Texas
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weld the bung on, hook up the wide band, set the trottle position, start running the data logs. you can see what positions he tunes @ on his site. the data logs don't need to be long at all. adding or subtracting 5 points on the map will adjust the corresponding afr @ that throttle/rpm .5 a point. adjust accordingly based on you data log findings.

_____________________________

MINE-08'outty800max-xt/lawed with28"skinnys/ snorked/w2"intake/radiator relocated
"Power down in the hole"

WIFE'S-07'trx420fm/uni/lawed with 28" skinnys/custom snorked/supertrapp mudslinger/high lifter outlaw clutch kit/dynojet pcIII power commander(tuned by "THE JOHN CANNON")

(in reply to matprice)

Post #: 10

RE: wideband commander - 9/5/2008 1:09:13 AM

MudOnDaTires

Posts: 113
Joined: 9/2/2008
Status: online

can you give a link to his site please

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Post #: 11

RE: wideband commander - 9/5/2008 1:52:07 AM

BCG800

Posts: 255
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From: lafayette,la
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mudanddirt. com

_____________________________

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29.5X10 OUTLAWS ON SS106
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DALTON CLUTCH KIT
POWER COMMANDER
UNI AIR FILTER
2" SNORKELS
2" PIPE LIFT
HMF

(in reply to MudOnDaTires)

Post #: 12

RE: wideband commander - 9/5/2008 2:14:24 AM

snowhite

Posts: 417
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hey BO pm me if you still need some help... JC isnt the only person doing this!!!!

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www.I45Racing.com

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Post #: 13

RE: wideband commander - 9/5/2008 8:28:29 AM

bruterecoveryman

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I know a guy

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Post #: 14

RE: wideband commander - 9/5/2008 3:25:19 PM

MudManMatt

Posts: 678
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Gulfport,Ms
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman

I know a guy

I know a 840 that needs to b tuned

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Post #: 15

RE: wideband commander - 9/13/2008 3:49:27 PM

bentley_owner

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Joined: 8/12/2006
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where is everyone hooking up the rpm wire.

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Rotax 800 H.O. V-Twin ,RW 12:1 pistons,DG/Chapman heads,DG racing cams,RW full race exhaust,power camandor,LCD screen, removed racks,E36R Elkas,26"Terracross on black 14" SS108's,K&N,Moded airbox,AC black racing front bumper,Dalton clutch kit

(in reply to bentley_owner)

Post #: 16

RE: wideband commander - 9/13/2008 9:27:29 PM

4man0822

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From: God's Country South MS.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman

I know a guy

I think I know 1 also??????

Casey do you know when he's gonna be set up? I'll be a guinnea pig, I think! LOL! Later Brandon

_____________________________

I'm just some dumb, not plumb dumb, huh!!
My new ride= 08 750 King Quad Belt snorked, VDI, M109R injector, EPI yellow spring, 18 gram weights, 2mm shim mod(Coop 45 mod) Twin Air & Yoshi=WOW!
4 a single, she hauls!!

"STOLEN"--- 07 700 Camo King Yoshi Pipe, PC3, UNI
filter, 27" Swamp Fox Plus, ATV Audiopipe, with the Bazookas(I love this thing)& **** 2500XT W/syn rope 05 500 Foreman 26"589 M+S 0n black C-4's, HMF Utility series, with jet, & UNI filter, boot guards& kimpex b

(in reply to bruterecoveryman)

Post #: 17

RE: wideband commander - 9/13/2008 11:33:46 PM

bruterecoveryman

Posts: 744
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bentley_owner

where is everyone hooking up the rpm wire.

there is a three wire plug on the bottom of the cdi/coil. hook up to the orange with black stripe wire

(in reply to bentley_owner)

Post #: 18

RE: wideband commander - 9/13/2008 11:43:25 PM

bruterecoveryman

Posts: 744
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4man0822

quote:

ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman

I know a guy

I think I know 1 also?????? Casey do you know when he's gonna be set up? I'll be a guinnea pig, I think! LOL! Later Brandon

Set up now! And I already have been stumped on mine

. Matt Pice is bringing shans bike out this week and you are welcome to come any time.
Gonna be a lil trial and error with that VDI but Im pretty sure we can figure it out

Mudmanmatt:

I'll give it a whirl when ever you are ready. But, didnt Sam tune yours after the build? He's pretty dern good with that dyno. I just had mine done out there a lil while back .

_____________________________

"BIT MORE PERFORMANCE" RACE TEAM

2008 outlander 800..... with a "Bit More" attitude
and some "ladner edition" bolt ons
2005 rincon........ gettin ready for deeep service

http://www.myspace.com/bitmore

http://www.youtube.com/bruterecoveryman

http://www.myspace.com/caseypmcginnis

(in reply to 4man0822)

Post #: 19

RE: wideband commander - 9/14/2008 8:08:37 AM

4man0822

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From: God's Country South MS.
Status: offline

Ok sounds good Casey! I'm working tonight & tomorrow night, then off for a few days. I'll deffiantely get by either Tues, Wed evening!

Later & holla if you need nething!

Brandon

_____________________________

I'm just some dumb, not plumb dumb, huh!!
My new ride= 08 750 King Quad Belt snorked, VDI, M109R injector, EPI yellow spring, 18 gram weights, 2mm shim mod(Coop 45 mod) Twin Air & Yoshi=WOW!
4 a single, she hauls!!

"STOLEN"--- 07 700 Camo King Yoshi Pipe, PC3, UNI
filter, 27" Swamp Fox Plus, ATV Audiopipe, with the Bazookas(I love this thing)& **** 2500XT W/syn rope 05 500 Foreman 26"589 M+S 0n black C-4's, HMF Utility series, with jet, & UNI filter, boot guards& kimpex b

(in reply to bruterecoveryman)

Post #: 20

RE: wideband commander - 9/14/2008 1:40:12 PM

Truservon

Posts: 1735
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Pass Christian,MS
Status: offline

Hey Casey,we need to get together soon before MudStock.Now that we have that thing

.I got something i wanna try.

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Fueled by COMPETITION SPORTS-Gulfport,MS
BITMORE TUNED
Rollin on Crushloks
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Post #: 21

RE: wideband commander - 9/14/2008 9:27:59 PM

bruterecoveryman

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Just let me know. I'll just bring it by one day after work if you want. then we can do all the tweaking you want. Just remember, I might have to save them maps for future use

(in reply to Truservon)

Post #: 22

RE: wideband commander - 9/14/2008 11:51:32 PM

4man0822

Posts: 3013
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From: God's Country South MS.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman

Just let me know. I'll just bring it by one day after work if you want. then we can do all the tweaking you want. Just remember, I might have to save them maps for future use

Why is that Casey?? LOL!!!

_____________________________

I'm just some dumb, not plumb dumb, huh!!
My new ride= 08 750 King Quad Belt snorked, VDI, M109R injector, EPI yellow spring, 18 gram weights, 2mm shim mod(Coop 45 mod) Twin Air & Yoshi=WOW!
4 a single, she hauls!!

"STOLEN"--- 07 700 Camo King Yoshi Pipe, PC3, UNI
filter, 27" Swamp Fox Plus, ATV Audiopipe, with the Bazookas(I love this thing)& **** 2500XT W/syn rope 05 500 Foreman 26"589 M+S 0n black C-4's, HMF Utility series, with jet, & UNI filter, boot guards& kimpex b

(in reply to bruterecoveryman)

Post #: 23

RE: wideband commander - 9/15/2008 10:47:48 AM

engie

Posts: 5183
Joined: 7/9/2006
From: Jackson/Starkville, MS
Status: offline

It's not a big deal really...

The PC is a very simple interface to use/tune, especially since it shows the Throttle Position in the user interface plugged into the PC3. The wideband commander will give the a/F ratios, so you just run in the tps you want to tune and then look at the log vs rpms and interpolate the difference....

Good luck "perfection" tuning the VDI is all I have to say... It doesn't have the ability to be "adjusted on the fly" and the quad has to be cut off each time you make an adjustment. Thus single adjustments that take 5sec on a PC3 take 2-3 min on a VDI....

_____________________________

Team Throwed Offroad crew chief

Currently building 4 race motors and awaiting the class breakdowns to start on the rest!!!

quote:

A second place trophy is only useful as a doorstop!

(in reply to 4man0822)

Post #: 24

RE: wideband commander - 9/15/2008 11:18:52 AM

bruterecoveryman

Posts: 744
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From: Picayune,Ms (Home of Bit More Performance)
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quote:

ORIGINAL: engie

Good luck "perfection" tuning the VDI is all I have to say... It doesn't have the ability to be "adjusted on the fly" and the quad has to be cut off each time you make an adjustment. Thus single adjustments that take 5sec on a PC3 take 2-3 min on a VDI....

Yeah I know what you mean. I helped Brandon install his VDI on the kingquad and noticed it was a lil more difficult to work with than the PC3.

_____________________________

"BIT MORE PERFORMANCE" RACE TEAM

2008 outlander 800..... with a "Bit More" attitude
and some "ladner edition" bolt ons
2005 rincon........ gettin ready for deeep service

http://www.myspace.com/bitmore

http://www.youtube.com/bruterecoveryman

http://www.myspace.com/caseypmcginnis

(in reply to engie)

Post #: 25

RE: wideband commander - 9/15/2008 11:21:10 AM

JohnCannon

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From: Mobile Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: engie

Good luck "perfection" tuning the VDI is all I have to say... It doesn't have the ability to be "adjusted on the fly" and the quad has to be cut off each time you make an adjustment. Thus single adjustments that take 5sec on a PC3 take 2-3 min on a VDI....

Also when you are tuning timing how do you know if you are making more HP or hurting HP. The only way to tune timing is on a dyno but 99% or all dynos do not put enough load on the motor which is EXTREMLY important when adjusting timing. Automotive tuners get a decent baseline on a dyno then use onboard knock sensors at race tracks to fine tune the timing in. Timing do not really effect A/F so that is not an option. I am interested in seeing how your timing tuning comes out.

_____________________________

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Post #: 26

RE: wideband commander - 9/15/2008 11:32:39 AM

JohnCannon

Posts: 1537
Joined: 11/14/2004
From: Mobile Alabama
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman

Just let me know. I'll just bring it by one day after work if you want. then we can do all the tweaking you want. Just remember, I might have to save them maps for future use

I have found that saving maps is only good for when the owners of the quads kill their PC3 or start messing with the buttons and have to be reloaded. Every quad that I have tuned has had a different tune. I did alot of testing with using other maps for a baseline but it only cause more problems tuning. Some tips is that sensors go bad pretty quick with the abuse I put them through so look out for that. Also be sure to setup the PC3 correctly before you start tuning. If not your tunes will be off and will not be able to transfer to another PC3 correctly if it dies. I have been tuning for a couple years using the WB and just now am learning all the small details that makes a big difference. Give me a call and we can compare notes. I have done 1 or 2 of them.

_____________________________

MaD MOTORSPORTS
.: www.MUDandDIRT.com :.
YouTube:. http://www.youtube.com/mudanddirt
MaD MOTORSPORTS CUSTOM EFI TUNING

07 Competition Sports/MaD Outlander X

PROUND SPONSOR OF
Team Gander Mtn
Bama Boggers
Matt Thompson
Brutewise

I support the troops 100%. You guys are my heros..

(in reply to bruterecoveryman)

Post #: 27

RE: wideband commander - 9/15/2008 12:10:28 PM

engie

Posts: 5183
Joined: 7/9/2006
From: Jackson/Starkville, MS
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnCannon

quote:

ORIGINAL: engie

Good luck "perfection" tuning the VDI is all I have to say... It doesn't have the ability to be "adjusted on the fly" and the quad has to be cut off each time you make an adjustment. Thus single adjustments that take 5sec on a PC3 take 2-3 min on a VDI....

Also when you are tuning timing how do you know if you are making more HP or hurting HP. The only way to tune timing is on a dyno but 99% or all dynos do not put enough load on the motor which is EXTREMLY important when adjusting timing. Automotive tuners get a decent baseline on a dyno then use onboard knock sensors at race tracks to fine tune the timing in. Timing do not really effect A/F so that is not an option. I am interested in seeing how your timing tuning comes out.

Ahhh...the timing issue...

I've found two possibilities for this using the lm1/lma3 combo that I have(guessing the wideband commander has similar abilities or add-ons)...but I honestly haven't gone to the trouble to try with either just yet. I haven't done a setup quite aggressive enough to warrant the extra effort, YET...

The first is using the thermocouple feature of the LMA-3 to determine head temps. The head will run the coolest when the timing is spot-on. Any knock or retard whatsoever will cause the temps to increase dramatically. You can do this at several different throttle positions/loads, and once you have it optimized you can interpolate in the differences, since timing is essentially linear. The problem, as you stated, is achieving the necessary load. This has also been my problem with tuning a/f ratios for bigtime loads. I'm going to eventually build a dyno-type setup with a brake of some sort that will allow me to get to 100% load...

The other is using the accelerometer feature of the LMA-3 on multiple runs/timing readings and overlay the graphs to determine which runs are actually the "fastest".

Either way, timing is a bit more of a PITA than a/f ratios. Of course, there's also the tried and true method of getting 'er hot, and advance the timing 5* until you ping and then backing it off * by * until you don't. The problem with that method on quads is that you have to assume that the rider will never overheat the thing and/or that you can provide 100% load...

_____________________________

Team Throwed Offroad crew chief

Currently building 4 race motors and awaiting the class breakdowns to start on the rest!!!

quote:

A second place trophy is only useful as a doorstop!

(in reply to JohnCannon)

Post #: 28

RE: wideband commander - 9/15/2008 12:42:26 PM

bruterecoveryman

Posts: 744
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: Picayune,Ms (Home of Bit More Performance)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnCannon

quote:

ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman

Just let me know. I'll just bring it by one day after work if you want. then we can do all the tweaking you want. Just remember, I might have to save them maps for future use

I have found that saving maps is only good for when the owners of the quads kill their PC3 or start messing with the buttons and have to be reloaded. Every quad that I have tuned has had a different tune. I did alot of testing with using other maps for a baseline but it only cause more problems tuning. Some tips is that sensors go bad pretty quick with the abuse I put them through so look out for that. Also be sure to setup the PC3 correctly before you start tuning. If not your tunes will be off and will not be able to transfer to another PC3 correctly if it dies. I have been tuning for a couple years using the WB and just now am learning all the small details that makes a big difference. Give me a call and we can compare notes. I have done 1 or 2 of them.

just poking a lil fun there John. I understand there is a difference in all bikes. even with the same engine ,airbox, exhaust and snorkle setup there will be differences.

I am not very familiar with the VDI module and have not been able to tune one yet. I'm sure we will have many many runs with it before we get it right. you can adjust fuel with it right?

_____________________________

"BIT MORE PERFORMANCE" RACE TEAM

2008 outlander 800..... with a "Bit More" attitude
and some "ladner edition" bolt ons
2005 rincon........ gettin ready for deeep service

http://www.myspace.com/bitmore

http://www.youtube.com/bruterecoveryman

http://www.myspace.com/caseypmcginnis

(in reply to JohnCannon)