why no '09 650h1 ?

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why no '09 650h1 ?

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why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/1/2008 6:39:32 PM

MuddCatt

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Noticed the new '09 650 models only include a TBX,TRV and Prowler. Guess they are pushing the 550 H1 in the sport/utility class.Guees I'll just have to go test a 550 when they come out.

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RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/1/2008 6:50:41 PM

ifitaintacatitsadog

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would it really make sense to make a 09 650h1? i mean what would be different on it then the 08? not tryin to be a dick jus wonderin

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RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/1/2008 7:05:27 PM

MuddCatt

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If you look at the Cat website they do...only in the models stated above. Thay added them a few days ago.

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Post #: 3

RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/2/2008 8:42:11 AM

Bunk650

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I think the new 550 is spose to be about as strong as the 'ol 650...

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RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/2/2008 8:50:18 AM

bustedknuckles

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ifitaintacatitsadog

would it really make sense to make a 09 650h1? i mean what would be different on it then the 08? not tryin to be a dick jus wonderin

That doesn't even make sense. Why wouldn't they make it. From what I've seen they're still a top seller for AC and are proven. They are just pushing the efi bikes alot harder. I bet it has something to do with being "green". efi runs alot cleaner than carbs do.

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RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/2/2008 9:21:37 AM

Lokimack

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ifitaintacatitsadog

would it really make sense to make a 09 650h1?

Yes it would in my opinion because of price point and carb. AC would have a value with the low price on a big bore and a carbed model. Not everyone, especially me, likes EFI.

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RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/2/2008 11:44:09 AM

MuddCatt

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I much rather spend $50 bucks to jet a carb than a couple of hundred to have a programmer. I have nothing against EFI , its just a little pricy when you start doing mods. But as they say, "you got to pay to play".

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RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/2/2008 11:45:54 AM

GWC

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yeap $50 is way cheaper. i have no need or want for EFI myself.

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RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/2/2008 6:27:05 PM

Kratos

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Bye bye 650.....

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Post #: 9

RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/3/2008 9:35:23 AM

LiveForMud

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gonna have to face it... EPA is mandating most forms of powersports start using EFI within the next year or two or they won't be able to sell them in this country. 2-strokes are already under the knife.

as good as the 650H1 was, the 700 is where the market is going. it's more evolution than revolution though... just the progression of cat's business plans. it's a newer and more versatile design and also has the improved bevel gears... basically eliminating about all of cat's weak points. if you need the gearing the 650 came with stock then stick in a set of 3.6s or 4.0s (or just buy a mud pro and be done with it).

it won't be much longer before EFI tuning will get easy and dirt cheap. if atv fuel injection systems get as good as those in cars and trucks, then you can snorkle it and install a pipe without doing anything to the fuel system... if it has the same sensors (intake air temp, manifold pressure, mass air flow, and oxygen sensor) then it'll be able to perfectly adjust the air fuel ratio for the mods automatically. it'll get the fuel metering much closer to perfect than you ever could tinkering with a carb. a carb feeds by specific fuel circuits, where EFI adjusts injector timing to the millisecond for ANY rpm and throttle load you can possible encounter. but for now we'll have to get programmers and tinker with it or pay someone else to make the tunes. but at least you can just plug the module into a computer and change settings as needed rather than tearing into the carb for every little change.

and EFI will make it so much easier to turbo or supercharge these little engines. i'd love to be able to install a positive displacement blower (like on a 03 or 04 mustang cobra, eaton or whipple) on my 500. instant full boost right off idle (NO lag), and holds full boost to redline... basically making a 500 act like, feel like, and have as much power as a 1500cc engine. EFI will make this a piece of cake.

hang on for the ride yall... i see a lot of exciting things happening in our sport in the next few years.

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RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/3/2008 10:51:17 AM

ZacksBF

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That is a surprise to me too. I have wondered why Kawi makes a 650i and a 750i because the power output is so close as well as the price but they continue to do it. I understand the 650 SRA because it is a cheaper big bore for people who want the power for utility work. As for the 650 H1 I really like them and I know they are very close to the 700 H1 in performance and price but I hate to see them go.

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RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/3/2008 11:41:36 AM

GWC

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I agree with alot of that LiveforMud , but untill they can adapt without buying a box to plug in they cost alot more money and for the untrained person they are alot harder to work on or diagnosis. I also dont like with the computors they use how they can set them to have so much lag or retard the timing so bad that you need a "box" to adjust it out of them so you can get the power out of them like you should to start with.

kinda like my truck, when you go WOT right off the line the computor retards the timing like 30* so it wont "hurt" its self and they wont have to ever do warrenty work on it from abuse. well this is all fine but hook a trailer to it and try to pull out in front of traffic when you have no power from a stop. i will have to spend about $300 bucks i would not have to if it had a carb on it without the computor controlling everything. my truck has 300hp and wont spin a tire because of the computor, imop they will do this type of thing more and more to the quads now that they have more control over it.

A carb can be pulled off and tore down in less then 10mins on one of these bikes and is far cheaper for the average person. blowers, turbos all sounds nice but is out of most peoples price range.

But all this does not matter like you said the EPA are the ones doing it so its what is coming wether we like it or not.
i for one dont like it and dont need it so iam glad i have the bike i do and its being such a good quad that i dont need to think about changing to something different..lol
sooner or later though i will have to by one with EFI because there will not be any around with carbs to buy just like with my truck....

just all my opinion.

< Message edited by GWC -- 10/3/2008 12:43:16 PM >

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RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/3/2008 12:02:17 PM

ZacksBF

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I agree with what you said GWC. The biggest thing I worry about is how far will they take it. Vehicles have sensors for everything. Sports cars come equipped with anit-spin that will retard the timing or pull fuel if the tires break loose. Some of them have an override or bypass button but others dont. Whats the point of owning a RWD sports car if you cant cut up and have a lil fun. So my worry is will big bore ATV's have an incline or wheelie sensor so they pull power if the front tires are at to great of an angle over the rear tires? Hopefully I am reading way to much into the thought of EFI and computer controled ATV's. I understand the EFI and if it stops there thats fine....BUT, if history proves anything it wont stop there and we will see more and more sensors and useless crap that we dont want on an off road vehicle. Which will just mean it costs more to mod it because it makes a programmer mandatory to bypass those sensors before you can add mods or even climb a steep hill or do a wheelie or roast the tires.
Sorry for the long post just a lil venting about things I hope dont happen that probably will.
Zack

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RE: why no '09 650h1 ? - 10/3/2008 12:16:47 PM

Dreggsta

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i wish a/c wouldve kept the 650 personally. even give you a carb or e.f.i. option. IMO, what cat shoulda done was create an 750 or 800 twin to bridge the huge gap between the 700 & 950. racers want twins. tbones is selling his 700 to get a twin. heck, i want a twin.

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