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serious problem - 8/23/2008 4:57:46 PM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

ok went out mudridin yesterday well got in a hole that never got above my tires and needless to say my spark arrestor got clogged up and caused the bike to die. i never could get it back started well the only bike i had with me was a recon. i couldnt winch out cuz my battery went dead so it took us 45 minuted to get the bike out the water. well needless to say my oil was real milky i changed it twice and cleaned it out. now its knockin in the bottom end wut could it be. sorry but i dont have a video so you can listen to it so i dont kno wut yall can figure out with this but any help would be appreciated

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
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Post #: 1

RE: serious problem - 8/23/2008 5:08:53 PM

gotmuddy

Posts: 21589
Joined: 3/3/2003
From: N. Arkansas
Status: offline

Well the only place water could get in at that depth is through the pull start. Sounds like you werent prepared for the situation.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: baf004

That'll buff right out.

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Post #: 2

RE: serious problem - 8/23/2008 5:29:09 PM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

yea i know but i wasnt expectin that i was actually gonna mess with that over the weekend but now its hurt right now lol. i cant stand those spark arrestors there not even worth straight du-du so i dont kno. some one told me it could be my valves tappin but the noise is comin from the bottom end. then they said it would either be the timin chain or a bent rod. when i got it back home and changed the oil several times i ran it and it ran fine for 5 mins then started tappin and i shut it off wut do u think it could be. bent rod, or timin chain. i hope it aint the rod cuz that would suck

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
clutch kit
hl lift springs
gear reduction
30x9 backs

(in reply to gotmuddy)

Post #: 3

RE: serious problem - 8/23/2008 5:40:21 PM

gotmuddy

Posts: 21589
Joined: 3/3/2003
From: N. Arkansas
Status: offline

oil wont get past the pull start seal the FIRST time you get it in water, and water doesnt get in through the spark arrestor.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: baf004

That'll buff right out.

(in reply to ridinhard)

Post #: 4

RE: serious problem - 8/23/2008 5:42:34 PM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

i kno but with every thing i listed and it tappin in the bottom end wut do you think is wrong with it

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
clutch kit
hl lift springs
gear reduction
30x9 backs

(in reply to gotmuddy)

Post #: 5

RE: serious problem - 8/23/2008 6:12:49 PM

gotmuddy

Posts: 21589
Joined: 3/3/2003
From: N. Arkansas
Status: offline

that you have had water in the oil for a while and just now noticed it.

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quote:

ORIGINAL: baf004

That'll buff right out.

(in reply to ridinhard)

Post #: 6

RE: serious problem - 8/23/2008 6:33:35 PM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

no no no when all this happened it was yesterday about 5 oclock and i got pulled back to the house and then when i got back thats when i checked the oil and seen that it was milky all this happened yesterday and i changed the oil and got it back runnin but now its tappin in the bottom end. wut is it. and how much does it cost to rebuild the bottom end

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
clutch kit
hl lift springs
gear reduction
30x9 backs

(in reply to gotmuddy)

Post #: 7

RE: serious problem - 8/23/2008 6:45:41 PM

James Chapman

Posts: 1757
Joined: 2/28/2008
From: Spring TX **USA**
Status: offline

I doubt its the bottom end honestly...check the valves first

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Post #: 8

RE: serious problem - 8/23/2008 7:22:05 PM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

see thats wut im thinkin to. im thinkin its the valves my self or the timin chain. its knockin kinda load and kinda fast so i dont kno wut it is but i took it to honda and had a tech listen to it and he said it sounds like its comin from the bottom end but i got a guy comin to look at it monday thats been messin with them for like 40 years or so, so idk but im not sure i put a medal rod on the bottom in and thats where it sounds like its comin from but idk. i just hope its not a rod you kno.

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
clutch kit
hl lift springs
gear reduction
30x9 backs

(in reply to James Chapman)

Post #: 9

RE: serious problem - 8/23/2008 9:25:30 PM

gotmuddy

Posts: 21589
Joined: 3/3/2003
From: N. Arkansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ridinhard

see thats wut im thinkin to. im thinkin its the valves my self or the timin chain. its knockin kinda load and kinda fast so i dont kno wut it is but i took it to honda and had a tech listen to it and he said it sounds like its comin from the bottom end but i got a guy comin to look at it monday thats been messin with them for like 40 years or so, so idk but im not sure i put a medal rod on the bottom in and thats where it sounds like its comin from but idk. i just hope its not a rod you kno.

a 2008 model isnt gonna have a timing chain go bad that fast, and it takes quite a while for grit in the water to cause enough wear for you to hear anything.

_____________________________

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Tires for sale

quote:

ORIGINAL: baf004

That'll buff right out.

(in reply to ridinhard)

Post #: 10

RE: serious problem - 8/23/2008 9:29:00 PM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

well im tellin you its tappin

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
clutch kit
hl lift springs
gear reduction
30x9 backs

(in reply to gotmuddy)

Post #: 11

RE: serious problem - 8/23/2008 9:48:27 PM

Rinny650

Posts: 1850
Joined: 3/8/2008
From: Andrews, South Carolina
Status: offline

Not to be a smart A but how oculd the guy thats coming to look at the bike have been around bikes for "like 40 years"?? The first honda was in 1986 I believe. Thats only 22 years

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Post #: 12

RE: serious problem - 8/23/2008 9:58:59 PM

matprice

Posts: 1535
Joined: 2/11/2008
From: waveland, mississippi
Status: offline

there are more places than just the pull start leak sheild for water to get in at the depth the dip stick plug could not hav been secured a hole in the crank case vent hose... at anyrate i think what gotmuddy is getting at that it had water in it long before this incident and you just noticed cause you was in water and cheked it... however i also doubt its the timing chain... and vlave tap is pretty evident most of the time...

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Post #: 13

RE: serious problem - 8/24/2008 5:36:50 AM

Honda Mechanic

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Joined: 4/7/2006
From: Canada
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I'd check for a scuffed piston ..

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Post #: 14

RE: serious problem - 8/24/2008 10:06:00 AM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

no i know there wasnt water in my oil before because i changed my oil three days before and that was the first time i took it out since i changed it. but if the tappin is comin out the bottom end could it still be my valves. i dont kno if he ment around just 4 wheelers in general for 40 years or wut but they all said he knows wut hes doin but im just hopin it aint my rod but the noise is comin out my valves

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
clutch kit
hl lift springs
gear reduction
30x9 backs

(in reply to Honda Mechanic)

Post #: 15

RE: serious problem - 8/24/2008 10:37:10 AM

Rinny650

Posts: 1850
Joined: 3/8/2008
From: Andrews, South Carolina
Status: offline

I will say onething tho about all this. Those engines are so easy to rebuild it almost aint funny. The hardest part is getting the motor out of the frame

_____________________________

Team C.I.C.
2004 F-150
6" Fabtech
2" Daystar
36x12.50x18 Baja Claws
1984 Ranger 5.0
302ci bored
6" superlift
33x12.50x15 TSL's

Previous Quads

2004 V-force 900cc, 26" Skat Trak Haulers
2005 Rincon 702cc,GR, 26x12 Laws
2007 Popo Sportsman,28x9.5 Laws
2002 Foreman, GR, 475 BBK, 27x12.5 Laws
2000 Rancher, 25x12.50 TSl swampers
1989 Bayou 22" wooly boogers

(in reply to ridinhard)

Post #: 16

RE: serious problem - 8/24/2008 10:42:46 AM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

ok well if it is my rod (which i wont know till monday) how much does it cost to rebuild the bottom end and also if its the valves how easy is it to do that

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
clutch kit
hl lift springs
gear reduction
30x9 backs

(in reply to Rinny650)

Post #: 17

RE: serious problem - 8/24/2008 10:50:11 AM

Rinny650

Posts: 1850
Joined: 3/8/2008
From: Andrews, South Carolina
Status: offline

There is a sticky about valves at the top of the honda section I believe. All you need is a small adjustable wrech,flathead screwdriver and a set of feeler gauges. Its easy as pie! Im not sure on the price for the new engines. I rebuilt my 2002 for about $800. That was the whole engine tho. New piston included

_____________________________

Team C.I.C.
2004 F-150
6" Fabtech
2" Daystar
36x12.50x18 Baja Claws
1984 Ranger 5.0
302ci bored
6" superlift
33x12.50x15 TSL's

Previous Quads

2004 V-force 900cc, 26" Skat Trak Haulers
2005 Rincon 702cc,GR, 26x12 Laws
2007 Popo Sportsman,28x9.5 Laws
2002 Foreman, GR, 475 BBK, 27x12.5 Laws
2000 Rancher, 25x12.50 TSl swampers
1989 Bayou 22" wooly boogers

(in reply to ridinhard)

Post #: 18

RE: serious problem - 8/24/2008 11:43:04 AM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

yea hopefully i dont have to rebuild but if i do i mine as well bore it out while im already in there ya kno. but if my valves are tappin where would the noise be comin from

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
clutch kit
hl lift springs
gear reduction
30x9 backs

(in reply to Rinny650)

Post #: 19

RE: serious problem - 8/24/2008 2:48:30 PM

Jake450s

Posts: 7101
Joined: 7/2/2000
From: Panton, VT
Status: offline

Valves don't go out of adjustment overnight. Water in the lower end won't make knocking bearings overnight. Water with a little dirt in it will make scuffed pistons, scored cylinder walls, and irreperably dirty oil coolers instantly, and can have a rod bearing or wrist pin knocking in a matter of a couple of minutes.

(in reply to ridinhard)

Post #: 20

RE: serious problem - 8/24/2008 8:05:45 PM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

ok well what do i do to go about fixin that if i have a rod bearing or wrist pin knockin or all of that

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
clutch kit
hl lift springs
gear reduction
30x9 backs

(in reply to Jake450s)

Post #: 21

RE: serious problem - 8/25/2008 12:01:09 PM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

ok well i just talked to that guy and he said its deffiantly in the top end he said he really dont think its the valves he said that its either the timin chain or my pistons slappin. he said all that really needs to be done is a top end rebuild and go in and clean every thing in there and itta be good to go. is that all i have to do in a top end rebuild or wut all do i need to do

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
clutch kit
hl lift springs
gear reduction
30x9 backs

(in reply to ridinhard)

Post #: 22

RE: serious problem - 8/25/2008 12:41:06 PM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

any help here

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
clutch kit
hl lift springs
gear reduction
30x9 backs

(in reply to ridinhard)

Post #: 23

RE: serious problem - 8/25/2008 12:59:58 PM

dirty450intensions

Posts: 62
Joined: 3/27/2008
Status: offline

if the top end is rattlin. check the piston really good, worst case is new piston, boring the cylinder, and new gaskets,seals ect. pretty standard overhaul.

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Post #: 24

RE: serious problem - 8/25/2008 1:00:53 PM

ridinhard

Posts: 184
Joined: 7/13/2008
From: dirty south, louisiana
Status: offline

ok when rebuildin the top end will i have to rebuild the bottom end to or can i get away with just the top end rebuild

_____________________________

08 white Honda Foreman 500
2500 warn winch
27" backs
2" highlifter lift kit
snorkel kit
k&n air filter
hmf utility exhaust
dyno jet kit
strobe lights

*soon to come*
pull start leak shield
clutch kit
hl lift springs
gear reduction
30x9 backs

(in reply to dirty450intensions)

Post #: 25

RE: serious problem - 8/26/2008 10:24:18 PM

gitrdone61

Posts: 104
Joined: 6/7/2007
Status: offline

how did get water in the oil if its snorkeled

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Post #: 26

RE: serious problem - 8/26/2008 10:55:50 PM

dcfox

Posts: 686
Joined: 4/15/2008
From: Beaumont,Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rinny650

Not to be a smart A but how oculd the guy thats coming to look at the bike have been around bikes for "like 40 years"?? The first honda was in 1986 I believe. Thats only 22 years

Dude...Honda first developed ATV's in the late 60's...so it is possible that the guy has been messing with ATV's for 40 years.

You were a little closer if you were referring to when quads showed up.
Suzuki had the first in 1982.

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Post #: 27

RE: serious problem - 8/27/2008 11:06:51 AM

Bump530

Posts: 1300
Joined: 5/17/2007
From: DeRidder, LA
Status: offline

well ill tell u my story on this and see if it helps u out any lol....i had mine die with the exhaust under water when it was 2 weeks old...some how water managed to get into the oil and we didnt think to check it out. we tried to get it running but mud had went from the exhuast all the way into the carb and plugged it up. there was no one drop of water in the air box either. we tried to start it till the battery went dead (we were a lil bit drunk). pulled it home and then thats when i found the water in the oil. got it running and it was makin some bad tappin noises. 2 weeks later it started smoking and i took it to the shop. they had to do a full rebuild on the motor.

not sayin u need a full rebuild done, but if yall tried crankin it long enough to make the battery go dead like i did, it aint lookin to good for just a top end rebuild

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Post #: 28