wideband commander

wideband commander

wideband commander (Full Version)

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bentley_owner -> wideband commander (9/4/2008 2:17:34 PM)
can anyone help with tunning with a wbc and powercomander on my 800. maybe a step by step run threw.

bentley_owner -> RE: wideband commander (9/4/2008 3:19:25 PM)
ANY ONE

dirtdiggler25 -> RE: wideband commander (9/4/2008 3:51:50 PM)
Dont know how to do it with a wideband but here's a link on how to do it without one MaD Basic Fuel Injection Tuning Guide Without a Wideband PM JohnCannon. He's one of the best tuners out there and thats what he uses to tune them.

bentley_owner -> RE: wideband commander (9/4/2008 6:48:33 PM)
I e-mailed john cannon threw his own web sight but never got any responce.

muddyfuzzy -> RE: wideband commander (9/4/2008 7:35:40 PM)
mr. cannon is a busy man, he's out turning fast bikes into REAL FAST bikes. he did my wife's 420 and now it's cherry. he was also kind enough to show me the ropes with it. it's really not something that you can explain in a post. it's actually alot more simple than i thought. can't expect the man to give up all his trade secrets, that would put him out of business.

matprice -> RE: wideband commander (9/4/2008 8:52:55 PM)
its not really somthing you can just explain it takes time and practice to tune.... first thing you know how to weld ?

bentley_owner -> RE: wideband commander (9/4/2008 8:55:53 PM)
yes, I can weld. not looking to take all his secrets just looking to get an idea of the steps to actualy doing it.

matprice -> RE: wideband commander (9/4/2008 9:06:19 PM)
if it was me i would pay the man to tune my stuff and ask a bunch of questions and pay very close attention.... understand the concept of what your trying to accomplish and you will understand how to tune.... its allot like trying to fix an electrical problem and having no knowledge of how electricity works

bentley_owner -> RE: wideband commander (9/4/2008 9:51:58 PM)
I would pay the man but I live in wisconsin and that would be a long drive.

muddyfuzzy -> RE: wideband commander (9/4/2008 10:06:25 PM)
weld the bung on, hook up the wide band, set the trottle position, start running the data logs. you can see what positions he tunes @ on his site. the data logs don't need to be long at all. adding or subtracting 5 points on the map will adjust the corresponding afr @ that throttle/rpm .5 a point. adjust accordingly based on you data log findings.

MudOnDaTires -> RE: wideband commander (9/5/2008 1:09:13 AM)
can you give a link to his site please

BCG800 -> RE: wideband commander (9/5/2008 1:52:07 AM)
mudanddirt. com

snowhite -> RE: wideband commander (9/5/2008 2:14:24 AM)
hey BO pm me if you still need some help... JC isnt the only person doing this!!!!

bruterecoveryman -> RE: wideband commander (9/5/2008 8:28:29 AM)
I know a guy[8\|]

MudManMatt -> RE: wideband commander (9/5/2008 3:25:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman I know a guy[8\|] I know a 840 that needs to b tuned [sm=schla03.gif]

bentley_owner -> RE: wideband commander (9/13/2008 3:49:27 PM)
where is everyone hooking up the rpm wire.

4man0822 -> RE: wideband commander (9/13/2008 9:27:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman I know a guy[8\|] I think I know 1 also?????? [8\|] Casey do you know when he's gonna be set up? I'll be a guinnea pig, I think! LOL! Later Brandon

bruterecoveryman -> RE: wideband commander (9/13/2008 11:33:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bentley_owner where is everyone hooking up the rpm wire. there is a three wire plug on the bottom of the cdi/coil. hook up to the orange with black stripe wire[;)]

bruterecoveryman -> RE: wideband commander (9/13/2008 11:43:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 4man0822 quote: ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman I know a guy[8\|] I think I know 1 also?????? [8\|] Casey do you know when he's gonna be set up? I'll be a guinnea pig, I think! LOL! Later Brandon Set up now! And I already have been stumped on mine[8\|]. Matt Pice is bringing shans bike out this week and you are welcome to come any time. Gonna be a lil trial and error with that VDI but Im pretty sure we can figure it out[;)] Mudmanmatt: I'll give it a whirl when ever you are ready. But, didnt Sam tune yours after the build? He's pretty dern good with that dyno. I just had mine done out there a lil while back .

4man0822 -> RE: wideband commander (9/14/2008 8:08:37 AM)
Ok sounds good Casey! I'm working tonight & tomorrow night, then off for a few days. I'll deffiantely get by either Tues, Wed evening! [;)] Later & holla if you need nething! [:D] Brandon

Truservon -> RE: wideband commander (9/14/2008 1:40:12 PM)
Hey Casey,we need to get together soon before MudStock.Now that we have that thing [;)].I got something i wanna try.

bruterecoveryman -> RE: wideband commander (9/14/2008 9:27:59 PM)
Just let me know. I'll just bring it by one day after work if you want. then we can do all the tweaking you want. Just remember, I might have to save them maps for future use[;)]

4man0822 -> RE: wideband commander (9/14/2008 11:51:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman Just let me know. I'll just bring it by one day after work if you want. then we can do all the tweaking you want. Just remember, I might have to save them maps for future use[;)] [sm=funnypost.gif] Why is that Casey?? LOL!!!

engie -> RE: wideband commander (9/15/2008 10:47:48 AM)
It's not a big deal really... The PC is a very simple interface to use/tune, especially since it shows the Throttle Position in the user interface plugged into the PC3. The wideband commander will give the a/F ratios, so you just run in the tps you want to tune and then look at the log vs rpms and interpolate the difference.... Good luck "perfection" tuning the VDI is all I have to say... It doesn't have the ability to be "adjusted on the fly" and the quad has to be cut off each time you make an adjustment. Thus single adjustments that take 5sec on a PC3 take 2-3 min on a VDI....

bruterecoveryman -> RE: wideband commander (9/15/2008 11:18:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: engie Good luck "perfection" tuning the VDI is all I have to say... It doesn't have the ability to be "adjusted on the fly" and the quad has to be cut off each time you make an adjustment. Thus single adjustments that take 5sec on a PC3 take 2-3 min on a VDI.... Yeah I know what you mean. I helped Brandon install his VDI on the kingquad and noticed it was a lil more difficult to work with than the PC3.

JohnCannon -> RE: wideband commander (9/15/2008 11:21:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: engie Good luck "perfection" tuning the VDI is all I have to say... It doesn't have the ability to be "adjusted on the fly" and the quad has to be cut off each time you make an adjustment. Thus single adjustments that take 5sec on a PC3 take 2-3 min on a VDI.... Also when you are tuning timing how do you know if you are making more HP or hurting HP. The only way to tune timing is on a dyno but 99% or all dynos do not put enough load on the motor which is EXTREMLY important when adjusting timing. Automotive tuners get a decent baseline on a dyno then use onboard knock sensors at race tracks to fine tune the timing in. Timing do not really effect A/F so that is not an option. I am interested in seeing how your timing tuning comes out.

JohnCannon -> RE: wideband commander (9/15/2008 11:32:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman Just let me know. I'll just bring it by one day after work if you want. then we can do all the tweaking you want. Just remember, I might have to save them maps for future use[;)] I have found that saving maps is only good for when the owners of the quads kill their PC3 or start messing with the buttons and have to be reloaded. Every quad that I have tuned has had a different tune. I did alot of testing with using other maps for a baseline but it only cause more problems tuning. Some tips is that sensors go bad pretty quick with the abuse I put them through so look out for that. Also be sure to setup the PC3 correctly before you start tuning. If not your tunes will be off and will not be able to transfer to another PC3 correctly if it dies. I have been tuning for a couple years using the WB and just now am learning all the small details that makes a big difference. Give me a call and we can compare notes. I have done 1 or 2 of them.

engie -> RE: wideband commander (9/15/2008 12:10:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnCannon quote: ORIGINAL: engie Good luck "perfection" tuning the VDI is all I have to say... It doesn't have the ability to be "adjusted on the fly" and the quad has to be cut off each time you make an adjustment. Thus single adjustments that take 5sec on a PC3 take 2-3 min on a VDI.... Also when you are tuning timing how do you know if you are making more HP or hurting HP. The only way to tune timing is on a dyno but 99% or all dynos do not put enough load on the motor which is EXTREMLY important when adjusting timing. Automotive tuners get a decent baseline on a dyno then use onboard knock sensors at race tracks to fine tune the timing in. Timing do not really effect A/F so that is not an option. I am interested in seeing how your timing tuning comes out. Ahhh...the timing issue... I've found two possibilities for this using the lm1/lma3 combo that I have(guessing the wideband commander has similar abilities or add-ons)...but I honestly haven't gone to the trouble to try with either just yet. I haven't done a setup quite aggressive enough to warrant the extra effort, YET... The first is using the thermocouple feature of the LMA-3 to determine head temps. The head will run the coolest when the timing is spot-on. Any knock or retard whatsoever will cause the temps to increase dramatically. You can do this at several different throttle positions/loads, and once you have it optimized you can interpolate in the differences, since timing is essentially linear. The problem, as you stated, is achieving the necessary load. This has also been my problem with tuning a/f ratios for bigtime loads. I'm going to eventually build a dyno-type setup with a brake of some sort that will allow me to get to 100% load... The other is using the accelerometer feature of the LMA-3 on multiple runs/timing readings and overlay the graphs to determine which runs are actually the "fastest". Either way, timing is a bit more of a PITA than a/f ratios. Of course, there's also the tried and true method of getting 'er hot, and advance the timing 5* until you ping and then backing it off * by * until you don't. The problem with that method on quads is that you have to assume that the rider will never overheat the thing and/or that you can provide 100% load...

bruterecoveryman -> RE: wideband commander (9/15/2008 12:42:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JohnCannon quote: ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman Just let me know. I'll just bring it by one day after work if you want. then we can do all the tweaking you want. Just remember, I might have to save them maps for future use[;)] I have found that saving maps is only good for when the owners of the quads kill their PC3 or start messing with the buttons and have to be reloaded. Every quad that I have tuned has had a different tune. I did alot of testing with using other maps for a baseline but it only cause more problems tuning. Some tips is that sensors go bad pretty quick with the abuse I put them through so look out for that. Also be sure to setup the PC3 correctly before you start tuning. If not your tunes will be off and will not be able to transfer to another PC3 correctly if it dies. I have been tuning for a couple years using the WB and just now am learning all the small details that makes a big difference. Give me a call and we can compare notes. I have done 1 or 2 of them. just poking a lil fun there John. I understand there is a difference in all bikes. even with the same engine ,airbox, exhaust and snorkle setup there will be differences. I am not very familiar with the VDI module and have not been able to tune one yet. I'm sure we will have many many runs with it before we get it right. you can adjust fuel with it right?

engie -> RE: wideband commander (9/15/2008 12:50:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bruterecoveryman I am not very familiar with the VDI module and have not been able to tune one yet. I'm sure we will have many many runs with it before we get it right. you can adjust fuel with it right? Yes...You can actually do the fuel maps and timing maps twice. That's once for each switch position...Thus you could potentially have a completely different set of maps for say, NITROUS, than you have for your daily riding....

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