RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX

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RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX

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RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/26/2008 11:57:25 PM

COKER6365

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HAHA, Snowhite...you're being called out!!!!!!!

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Post #: 181

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 12:05:12 AM

snowhite

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Voodoo

Snowhite.....

I don't know U ,,,,but I am thinking that you have some issues here or on Aurora......... What's the deal Bro???????

some issues have been cleared up... what would the forum be without stupid people? If you knew the "big picture" you would understand... and I have to watch what is said... :) i can tell you over a beer labor day if you are coming to texas.......

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Post #: 182

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 8:01:21 AM

Voodoo

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From: Winnsboro, La
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THX ...Time will tell if any of this will work... Good Luck to all....

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09 Outty 800R Red
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Post #: 183

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 9:45:18 AM

Kratos

Posts: 789
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From: McComb, MS
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Voodoo, with the results lips450 got on the clutch kit, is the helix mod supposed to be just as good or better than that? The reason I asked is because some guys say it's better than a kit alone.

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08 thundercat 1000, 3.6 gears, clutch kit, exhaust mod

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Post #: 184

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 10:00:37 AM

Voodoo

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From: Winnsboro, La
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Kratos

Jury is still out on that one... The clutch kit addition has proven itself time and again... CC1999 is going to test out the Helix on his 09..so we will see..
I hope it does... The Dalton Clutch kit is the way to go ..IF ..you want to improve bottom end right away... it has many variations to fit what U want it to do....The only thing I don't like about clutch kits is the Higher RPM engagment... makes the bike too jumpy in tight situations...

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Voodoo

09 Outty 800R Red
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Woods 12:1 High Compression Pistons

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Post #: 185

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 10:47:25 AM

Kratos

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Cool. I'll be watching the posts before I do anything.

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08 thundercat 1000, 3.6 gears, clutch kit, exhaust mod

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Post #: 186

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 10:49:03 AM

007BF

Posts: 1601
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From: Houston, TX
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I don't think CC1999 knows his head from his *** when it comes to modding the bikes. I have read too many of his post where he doesn't understand but then he turns around and gives advice on the same subject to someone else. He has alot of respect on the forums because he has all the newest bikes as soon as they come out and people assume he knows what he's talking about.

CC1999 repeatedly questioned the clutching of the 800R Renegade, whether it was outty weights or 07-08 Renegade weights yet he has one at home and can't remove 7 bolts from the CVT cover to solve the question?? There is more to go on but I'll stop there. The point is he would rather buy something already built for business and never understand the how or why of the mods.

Ya, he's a real problem solver! You still want to take his so called advice on clutching, etc. then be my guest.

Either way, its all good!!

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Post #: 187

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 10:56:13 AM

Kratos

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I don't know who you are 007BF, but cc has got a lot of respect from me and he has good knowledge. He's trying to help just like everyone else and attacking his character won't be accepted by me. I've been reading your posts in the past and I was starting to respect you but you won't be gettin it from me trashing a fellow atvrider on here who has good intentions. We are all learning here and sharing and if you can't add postivity to that, then stay the **** out of our conversation. You certainly don't want anyone to post against you anywhere do you? Well show the same respect.

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08 thundercat 1000, 3.6 gears, clutch kit, exhaust mod

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Post #: 188

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 10:58:25 AM

Voodoo

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From: Winnsboro, La
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I would take his advice over yours any day of the week Bud.... CC has been modding quads for years...

What's up with the persoal attack !!!!!!!!!!!!!

< Message edited by Voodoo -- 8/27/2008 10:59:58 AM >

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09 Outty 800R Red
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Post #: 189

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:01:17 AM

Voodoo

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Well Put Kratos

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Post #: 190

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:09:47 AM

cc1999

Posts: 729
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Kansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 007BF

I don't think CC1999 knows his head from his *** when it comes to modding the bikes. I have read too many of his post where he doesn't understand but then he turns around and gives advice on the same subject to someone else. He has alot of respect on the forums because he has all the newest bikes as soon as they come out and people assume he knows what he's talking about.

CC1999 repeatedly questioned the clutching of the 800R Renegade, whether it was outty weights or 07-08 Renegade weights yet he has one at home and can't remove 7 bolts from the CVT cover to solve the question?? There is more to go on but I'll stop there. The point is he would rather buy something already built for business and never understand the how or why of the mods.

Ya, he's a real problem solver! You still want to take his so called advice on clutching, etc. then be my guest.

Either way, its all good!!

I do not remember giving a lot of advise on clutching, I am not a clutch expert, never did I claim to be. I have tried a few combinations and have comented on what I learned from those experinces. So if you don't care for my input, don't read it. I have been asking question and have been trying to learn more about the clutchs as have many others. If you want to know so bad whats in the 09 get your own, or wait till I am ready to take mine apart. That wont be till I am done with the other things I have planned to do first.

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09 Sportsman BLACK 850 XP EPS ORDERED!!!
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08 Sportsman 800 X2 LE Stealth Black
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Past Quads:
08,Tcat,08'RinconWhite 680,08'PolarisRZR800,06' Outlander 800 XT, 07' Renegade ,**** 800 Twin Peaks Blue, 06' Outlander Max, 02'P650, 05' SP800 EFI, 04'TwinPeaks700, 00'SP500, 99'scrambler, 03'Trail Boss, 00'Kodiac, 96'00'Warrior, ect.ect.

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Post #: 191

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:12:38 AM

Kratos

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Instead of cc attacking 007BF like he did him, he just gave a humble response to his knowledge. I think we can clearly see that cc has real class.

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Post #: 192

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:16:38 AM

steveo10

Posts: 366
Joined: 1/1/2008
From: Vermilion, AB
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CC1999 i enjoy hearing the ride reports of your rides and the trial/error on the dynos so i get the rite combo the 1st time :)

< Message edited by steveo10 -- 8/27/2008 11:18:23 AM >

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RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:27:59 AM

007BF

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The mojority of my comments were directed to the aurorawheelers forum where you constantly give clutching advice without understanding such as saying heavier weights = higher engagement. You create an overall assumption based on one example? Renegade weights vs. outty weights?? The profile is what makes the lighter Renegade weights engage lower than the heavier outty weights. I tried to explain that to you and you blew it off. I tried to offer assistance to help you understand the logic but it didn't matter.

I know whats in the 800R Renegade CVT, I don't need to spend another $9k to feel special. Thanks anyway...

And for Krato and Voodoo, you two follow CC1999 around like puppy dogs. Your opinion means S*** to me...

I don't mind helping you and if I don't know I will be more than happy to try to refer you to someone who does. Good luck with the mods and enjoy the bike.

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Post #: 194

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:35:41 AM

Kratos

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And your opinion means **** to me. Now go **** off!

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Post #: 195

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:42:31 AM

Voodoo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 007BF

The mojority of my comments were directed to the aurorawheelers forum where you constantly give clutching advice without understanding such as saying heavier weights = higher engagement. You create an overall assumption based on one example? Renegade weights vs. outty weights?? The profile is what makes the lighter Renegade weights engage lower than the heavier outty weights. I tried to explain that to you and you blew it off. I tried to offer assistance to help you understand the logic but it didn't matter.

I know whats in the 800R Renegade CVT, I don't need to spend another $9k to feel special. Thanks anyway...

And for Krato and Voodoo, you two follow CC1999 around like puppy dogs. Your opinion means S*** to me...

I don't mind helping you and if I don't know I will be more than happy to try to refer you to someone who does. Good luck with the mods and enjoy the bike.

Hey Punk....you can Suck Ole' Buck and like It....

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09 Outty 800R Red
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Post #: 196

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:43:46 AM

Kratos

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First snowhite, now this punk. The last two days have been crazy. What's up?

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08 thundercat 1000, 3.6 gears, clutch kit, exhaust mod

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Post #: 197

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:45:29 AM

Voodoo

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I think it must be that good Texas water...

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Post #: 198

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:49:18 AM

Kratos

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From: McComb, MS
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Lol.

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Post #: 199

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:50:38 AM

cc1999

Posts: 729
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Kansas
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The post where the confusion started, was about someonelse discoverd the BRP parts breakdown showing the gades recieved Outy weights for 09, I did not buy a gade, so it would have made no differece, I could not have answered what was in the 09 gade even I had pulled the cover off my 09 Outy. That qustion has been answered now on auarora by someone that does have an 09 gade and it was a misprint on BRPs parts list it still had gade weights. There were also 2 instances where my experince with the weights both lighter than stock and both lowered engagement one the Costom cut outy fingers from cowtown and the other was the Renegade weights, that lead me to that conclusion that after seeing it twice with two differnt combos both lighter than stock, I admit thats was confusing on my part about the engagement being lower after seeing it happen twice with 2 differnt machines of mine . I did specify why and what the details were in why I belived that. So it was not like I left my answer without specifing why I thought that.

I am glad to see a lot of people out there trying new things, and its intersting to actually see how some of these new combos work. I admit that clutching for me is based off the combos I have tried, I am sure there are better ones out there and I am eager to learn more about them and try a few of them myself.

_____________________________

09 Sportsman BLACK 850 XP EPS ORDERED!!!
09 Outlander BLACK 800R XT
08 Sportsman 800 X2 LE Stealth Black
06 Outlander 840 std. Red Woods pipe and few other things
05' Rally Red

Past Quads:
08,Tcat,08'RinconWhite 680,08'PolarisRZR800,06' Outlander 800 XT, 07' Renegade ,**** 800 Twin Peaks Blue, 06' Outlander Max, 02'P650, 05' SP800 EFI, 04'TwinPeaks700, 00'SP500, 99'scrambler, 03'Trail Boss, 00'Kodiac, 96'00'Warrior, ect.ect.

(in reply to 007BF)

Post #: 200

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:55:12 AM

Kratos

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Yes I remember that thread and it was extremely confusing to everyone who chimed in on it from the guru's to the newbie's. It's all cleared up now thanks to everyone's post.

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08 thundercat 1000, 3.6 gears, clutch kit, exhaust mod

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Post #: 201

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 11:57:52 AM

BruteWise

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Voodoo

I think it must be that good Texas water...

i see russell (007bf) getting flustered because he is so dadgum smart with these clutches and he doesn't understand that MOST of US (me included) don't understand them. i will say voodoo and kratos that if it is the texas water then i want some of it cuz i will say that if there is any clutch ideas or ways to do them to put the most power to the ground 007bf and txrancher01 WILL figure it out or already have. i raced a 08 can am 800 xt 2up in minden, LA that was BONE STOCK that was only clutched by these two fellas and that machine STOMPED everything. the reason behind my post is all this interenet confusion always brings people to misunderstand this or that. russell is a good guy as i am sure cc1999 is also but i will say this............when i have ANY type of a clutch question.............007bf or txrancher will be the ones to answer because to this day i have yet to find anyone that can show me they either KNOW anymore about them or have proven they can do anything more than they have. so everyone ease up on everyone!

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RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 12:04:08 PM

Kratos

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I know 007BF knows clutching because I've been reading his posts for some time, but that doesn't excuse his behavior to all of us today because he has good knowledge. Heck, I'm a doctor and when my patients think they know more than me and try to diagnose themselves, I still treat them with the upmost respect and listen to their opinions. There will be no glory for me if I told them how much they didn't know compared to my years of medical training, bla bla bla... because it serves no purpose in their care and prognosis for their condition.

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08 thundercat 1000, 3.6 gears, clutch kit, exhaust mod

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Post #: 203

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 12:09:10 PM

007BF

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Thanks Mark, this is why I hate forums!! But its all good, I don't hold grudges. Best of luck to all of you.

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Post #: 204

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 12:14:14 PM

cc1999

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From: Kansas
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I agree 007BF knows more about clutching than I do, a lot more. He is one that really seems to have grasp on the theory behind clutching. All my coments and post have been in reguards to experince with this or that combination that I had tried and what worked for me with my setup. I also try and point out details of what it performed like as best as I can descibe them. I really don't see what the harm is in relaying that type of info. I don't think you really have to be an expert in clutch theory to say hay I added renegade weights and it did this, or I tried a dalton kit with this and that and it performed like so, on my machines setup.

_____________________________

09 Sportsman BLACK 850 XP EPS ORDERED!!!
09 Outlander BLACK 800R XT
08 Sportsman 800 X2 LE Stealth Black
06 Outlander 840 std. Red Woods pipe and few other things
05' Rally Red

Past Quads:
08,Tcat,08'RinconWhite 680,08'PolarisRZR800,06' Outlander 800 XT, 07' Renegade ,**** 800 Twin Peaks Blue, 06' Outlander Max, 02'P650, 05' SP800 EFI, 04'TwinPeaks700, 00'SP500, 99'scrambler, 03'Trail Boss, 00'Kodiac, 96'00'Warrior, ect.ect.

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Post #: 205

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 12:42:08 PM

engie

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Clutching overall is a very confusing science. There's never a such thing as a "best setup". Having an understanding of what each setup does precisely will make a big difference in the ability you can feed to the machine. One thing that I've been meaning to do(and will when I get the time) is to put my LM3 on each type of bike and play with clutching. For those of you that are unfamiliar, an lm3 has a built-in accelerometer and datalogger. It will give exact acceleration figures as a function of time. With multiple runs, and multiple clutch setups, it would be relatively simple to do a graph overlay of all the averages and thus "prove" what setups work best under what conditions.

From an engineering standpoint, I know they use a FS on these clutches(that's Factor of Safety). Basically they determine maximum possible output and then pull it back by 20-25% and/or overbuild the clutches in the first place. What does that mean to us? There's roughly 20% we can gain if we determine how/where they pulled it back.

From my experience with the dalton kits on the Can-Ams(all mudracing setups), they give great launch but don't allow for full travel on the primary sheaves. There is 1/4" or so at the top of WillE's primary that the belt never touches. What does this tell me? This tells me with a slightly different or longer clutchplates, with a possible different center of mass, that there is the possibility of getting alot more topspeed, which is important to a mudracer in lowrange. How much more? Judging by the ramp angle and length, I'd say 15-20% is possible. That's 4-8mph more out of low range and once applied, that will most likely win you a few water races...

Truly understanding the clutches is the first step towards KNOWING what mods will help or hinder you before you ever do them. We have a good writeup on the AC/Zuki/Yami setup. I'd love to see the same type of writeup for the Can-Am/Polaris/Kawi setup. As convoluted and complex as it all seems, it basically boils down to primary spring force+secondary spring force = centrifugal force of weights in the Can-Am "type" system. This is actually a relational inequality(thus how you achieve more lowend but less topspeed out of a setup, etc), but for all practical purposes the above is true.

Everybody needs to take a deep breath in here and relax... We can discuss clutching all day and disagree all we want without letting it turn to this...

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RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 12:46:51 PM

junyahfan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BruteWise

quote:

ORIGINAL: Voodoo

I think it must be that good Texas water...

i raced a 08 can am 800 xt 2up in minden, LA that was BONE STOCK that was only clutched by these two fellas and that machine STOMPED everything.

Agree, Ya'll ease up a bit.
Mark, I agree with you about russell and chase having the clutches hooked up. Needed no more proof after I REPEATEDLY put t-cats and 800 outtys on the trailer at can-am nats...........ON A 650!!

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Post #: 207

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 4:23:26 PM

Voodoo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 007BF

Thanks Mark, this is why I hate forums!! But its all good, I don't hold grudges. Best of luck to all of you.

Sorry I got so fired up...

I respect everyone's opinions and recommendatoins...

PEACE and good luck as well....

< Message edited by Voodoo -- 8/27/2008 4:25:13 PM >

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09 Outty 800R Red
HMF
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Woods 12:1 High Compression Pistons

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Post #: 208

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 5:17:06 PM

Kratos

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It's all good here too.

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08 thundercat 1000, 3.6 gears, clutch kit, exhaust mod

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Post #: 209

RE: 07 Gade Vs. 09 GadeX - 8/27/2008 5:46:03 PM