RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix?

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RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix?

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RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix? - 1/23/2008 8:44:18 PM

LiveForMud

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(continued)

but the simple gear swap won't work. the black gear in the picture below, which is the low range driven gear (part# 2), is what turns the gear and shaft that's attached to the bevel gear. so we can't swap these because the high range gear set won't mesh with that larger gear. also in the picture below, notice something? the shift fork is engaging the low range driven gear (part# 2)... look at that shift cam and how it has the shift fork and dog gear situated during this time... the grooves in the collar (shift cam) are what move the shift fork to the left or right as the shift cam rotates (when you move the shift lever back and forth from L to R).//

(see attached picture below to follow along, had to butcher it a little so it would upload)

i can see some simple welding and a little milling on that shift cam pushing that shift fork/dog gear back onto the low reduction gears when you shift into reverse. just repeat the pattern for low range on the other side of the "high range part" of the shift cam and voila, you've just gained yourself low range reverse. the "shift fork groove" in the shift cam would have to be modified to look like a symmetrical Vee... if you catch my drift... with the shifter in "L", the fork rides in the shift cam groove and pushes the dog gear to the left, locking onto the low range reduction set. with the shifter in "H", the fork ride in the shift cam groove in the other direction and pushes the dog gear to the right, locking onto the high range reduction set. now to get low range reverse, the pattern on the shift cam has to go back the other way as you rotate it so that it engages the low range reduction gear set. making a Vee pattern.

that shift cam (part #8 on the 06 subtrans shifting assembly diagram) isn't an expensive part, $35 at mr cycles. this is where it's going to take a guinea pig to buy this piece, modify it, and install it. i played the guinea pig on the tachometer and spent $70, and it worked out for me. now someone will have to give the "shift cam mod" a try. if (WHEN) it works, that's what it's going to be called.

it involves some metal working, but this HAS to work. also, i believe one of the vendors who post on here HAS to be able to do this mod to the shift cam. if i had a lathe and a 400M i would try it, but i can't put myself in that position right now.

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Post #: 31

RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix? - 1/23/2008 9:10:52 PM

SWAMPCAT

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i have a400m motor and acess to a lathe.might try it when i get some time..if anyone wants a spare motor to try this i'll take $500

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Post #: 32

RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix? - 1/24/2008 8:02:23 AM

dharbeck

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Joined: 11/9/2007
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I wish I had access to a lathe. Liveformud you should modify the gears and sell them. You could make some real money from people like me who can't do the mods themselves. Maybe highlifter would produce.

Just a thought

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Post #: 33

RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix? - 1/24/2008 10:07:44 AM

Venbone

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From: Breaux Bridge, LA
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if a few are made and it works i would pay a premium also.

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Post #: 34

RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix? - 1/24/2008 3:41:41 PM

LiveForMud

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sounds like swampcat could pull it off. the shift cam is a $35 part, so there won't be a lot of material costs up front. but the man can't do it for free... time is money.

we do have a drill press and a mig welder at the farm shop. i have thought up a rough way of doing it. the welding doesn't worry me, as i'd just cut some flat stock to weld into the channel where we need to start transitioning back over to engage the low range gear. but i'm weary of trying to "machine" that shift cam with a drill press. it would take a lot of passes to cut the new channel, then after you rough out the channel you'd have to go through it with a reamer to straighten it out, and then a rock bit and sander to smooth up the channel walls. but first you have to worry about if it's case hardened or not. if it's not case hardened, then drilling/reaming might be a somewhat easy way to go as long as it can be kept straight.

if i had a 400m of my own i would be out there right now trying it just to see. i'm just worried about using someone elses wheeler as a guinea pig, especially since my machining skills are limited.

uugghh... with all the huge lifts and custom work that occurs on this board, someone has to be able to pull it off. turner's, ****, nugent, etc should be able to easily do this with all the equipment they have. does highlifter have any machine tools to do this kind of work?

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Post #: 35

RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix? - 1/24/2008 7:59:06 PM

LiveForMud

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this thing has about whipped me... just got off the phone with my uncle after a near 2 hour long conversation (the retired race car builder who knows his ****). i sent him the service manual and we started going through it. we also looked at this thread so he could see what i'm trying to do. he's pretty familiar with my cat as he's driven it many times and is comfortable with how the cats work.

he may be getting old, but he's still sharp, and he came up with a good idea for the 400M guys to make their own high/low range shifter. and it's so simple it's almost brilliant.

let's look at the problem with my last idea.... yes i know this is getting old, sorry guys, but i'm just sincerely trying to help.... he looked a little further down in the manual and found some pics that blow my last idea all to ****. the subtrans shift cam is NOT symmetrical, so modifying it is useless. notice in the picture below that the recessed areas that the shift cam locating dowel sits in, is NOT evenly spaced. high and reverse are very close together, and when you pull the lever back to "R", it turns a shaft inside the cases that engages the actual transmission reverse gear. it doesn't need to move far, so that's why my shift cam mod won't work.

in the next post i'll start detailing what my uncle thinks would work.

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Post #: 36

RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix? - 1/24/2008 8:09:11 PM

LiveForMud

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he noticed how my differential lock worked... the little knob on the handle bar that you rotate and the cable engages and disengages the lock collar on the front left axle.... and said we might be able to replicate this idea on the shift fork that works the dog gear between the high/low gears.

at this point you have to decide how bad you want that low range reverse gear.

the first thing that's needed is to free the shift fork from the shift cam. the only way to do this is to grind off the finger follower:

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< Message edited by LiveForMud -- 1/24/2008 8:10:12 PM >

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Post #: 37

RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix? - 1/24/2008 8:34:38 PM

LiveForMud

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now the next part is left to the imagination of the one installing it.

i don't know the exact amount of travel that the shift fork has to move through between the high and low reduction gears. if i had to guess, i'd say between 1/2" to 3/4" by comparing the width of the guy's finger to the distance between the extremes of the shift cam groove (left to right dimension).

when we talked about this, the one thing that rang a bell was my buddy's old quadrunner 250 4x4 (the H/L/SL trans version). his ranges, drive modes, and reverse are selected by moving those shift levers on top on the gas tank. all of those levers operate thick (VERY stiff) cables that have their own protective shielding. i think it's possible to use something like this to move that shift fork. the first thing needed is to tap into the case so we can hook to the shift fork which is approximately shown in the picture below. the tricky part is finding somewhere to mount another lever, then it needs to have a guide to make sure the fork is consistently located in the right place every time.

it's getting late for me, so i'm going to let this stew for the rest of the night. i'll get back to this tomorrow when i get home from work.

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Post #: 38

RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix? - 1/25/2008 9:56:57 AM

dharbeck

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Joined: 11/9/2007
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Any idea what this is all about???? anyone?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/suzuki-eiger-reverse-override-kit-auto-manual-4x4-4x2_W0QQitemZ140201854476QQihZ004QQcategoryZ43977QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Suzuki front and rear bumpers
Full Skid plates.
Vinson wheels with 26X9X12 and 26X12X12 Mud Wolf Tires
Symtec Heated Hand grips
Xtreme Winch w/warn contactor
Warn Plow
Carb Slide Mod
FMF Powerline Exhaust w/ Dyno jet kit

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Post #: 39

RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix? - 1/25/2008 3:40:24 PM

LiveForMud

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sounds like its for the autos. i don't know about auto cats/eigers, but on some of the big bores you have to press an override button to bypass a rev limiter in reverse. it doesn't change the gearing.

and for the manual's reverse shift cam, short of completely remachining the channel (mirroring the whole thing about the centerline), making a dedicated high/low shifter hooking directly to the shift fork is the only other way. that second option will give you the flexibility of high or low range reverse, but i'm not so sure anyone wants to mod their case.

the top picture is what the stock shift cam looks like. the bottom picture is just a mirrored version of the top, so use your imagination that the shaft and bearings are oriented like the top. with this, you've got low range reverse. and the shifter pattern will be flipped from L-H-R to H-L-R. i'm sure a lathe, or better yet, a milling machine would do this pretty quickly.

i think this is as far as i'm going to go with figuring it out. it involves machining, but it'll be the most time/cost effective since you only have to mod one piece.

come on 400M owners, you know you want low range reverse... help find someone that'll give it a try

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RE: 04+ AC400m reverse fix? - 9/30/2008 6:28:24 PM

LiveForMud

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couldn't help myself... had to bring this post back from the dead to vindicate all that dang typing i had to do! lol

shift cam mod is finished... any other replies to this topic please put them in here:
http://www.highlifter.com/forum/400m_reverse_fix_has_begun%25%25%25/m_2941926/tm.htm

moderators can you please lock this thread? i'd like to keep the discussion in the new thread... thought it would be nice to bring this one back up in case anyone wanted to know the history to it (plus some members have subscribed to this thread).

'preciate it!

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Post #: 41