RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review:

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RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/21/2007 7:40:59 AM

B Man

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I just saw this and all i can say is great report on the two tires!

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Post #: 31

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 1/9/2008 8:41:36 PM

BigDozer66

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Nice work!

BigDozer66

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'06 Outty 800HO Warn 3.0xt, 27" MST's on Motosport Climax's, Ricochet skids, Alumatech CV Guards, BigDozer66 Custom Battery Protector

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Post #: 32

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 1/10/2008 12:26:48 AM

gravehunter

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From: Southwest Iowa
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Thanks.
Its been warm enough to melt most of the ice and snow, but the water(in the pond we mud in) is still frozen so no ride report yet. Its all still frozen.
Hopfully somtime soon. Was hoping for this weekend but its going to be back down the in the 20's if the weather prediction stays the same.

So far i'm super happy with my MST's.

_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

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Post #: 33

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 2/20/2008 9:53:08 PM

xJDMx

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It hit -36 last night here, without windchill. I was wondering why not test their snow abilities side by side?

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Post #: 34

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 2/21/2008 10:41:54 AM

CRSBear400

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This is one of the most informative and unbiased reviews i've seen. It needs to be a sticky IMO. Very good work!

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05 Mudstock-1st-IRS
06 Mudstock 2nd-0-400
06 Cypress Creek 1st 400cc/3rd 400-599
07 SkoolzOut Easter Bog 1st-501+up
07 Buffalo Gap 3rd-0-500/3rd-501+up
07 Spring MudFest 3rd 0-400
07 Can-Am Nats 2nd-0-400
08 C.M.R Mudfest 2nd 0-400
08 Bayou Mud Racing 3rd 701+up
08 PSR Texas Mudfest Pro A 1st R1
08 PSR Texas Mudfest Pro A 1st R2
08 C.M.R CanAm Nats Mud Drag 2nd
08 C.M.R. H'coming C3 Bog 3rd
08 C.M.R. H'coming SwampX C1 3rd
www.flickr.com/photos/cale_angela/sets/

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Post #: 35

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 2/21/2008 3:52:01 PM

xJDMx

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I still would like to know more info. Like the tread depth and how hard the tread is?

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Post #: 36

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 2/23/2008 5:51:54 PM

joeharley

Posts: 89
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any new info on this comparison ?

joe

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Post #: 37

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/8/2008 9:26:37 AM

CRSBear400

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bumping you back up.

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05 Mudstock-1st-IRS
06 Mudstock 2nd-0-400
06 Cypress Creek 1st 400cc/3rd 400-599
07 SkoolzOut Easter Bog 1st-501+up
07 Buffalo Gap 3rd-0-500/3rd-501+up
07 Spring MudFest 3rd 0-400
07 Can-Am Nats 2nd-0-400
08 C.M.R Mudfest 2nd 0-400
08 Bayou Mud Racing 3rd 701+up
08 PSR Texas Mudfest Pro A 1st R1
08 PSR Texas Mudfest Pro A 1st R2
08 C.M.R CanAm Nats Mud Drag 2nd
08 C.M.R. H'coming C3 Bog 3rd
08 C.M.R. H'coming SwampX C1 3rd
www.flickr.com/photos/cale_angela/sets/

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Post #: 38

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/17/2008 3:40:22 PM

outdrsmn82

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i cant wait to hear the ride report.

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Post #: 39

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/18/2008 1:50:31 PM

outdrsmn82

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I LIKE THE BOTH OF THEM. SO ITS A TIE FOR ME RIGHT NOW. YALL CAN SWAY ME EITHER WAY. LOL. I DIDNT SE THE HEIGHT OF THE BOTH OF THEM DO THEY MEASURE TRUE. AND THE LUG DEPTH ON BOTH OF THEM ARE THE SAME?

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Post #: 40

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/18/2008 11:14:07 PM

CRSBear400

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see below

< Message edited by CRSBear400 -- 3/19/2008 9:40:59 PM >

_____________________________

05 Mudstock-1st-IRS
06 Mudstock 2nd-0-400
06 Cypress Creek 1st 400cc/3rd 400-599
07 SkoolzOut Easter Bog 1st-501+up
07 Buffalo Gap 3rd-0-500/3rd-501+up
07 Spring MudFest 3rd 0-400
07 Can-Am Nats 2nd-0-400
08 C.M.R Mudfest 2nd 0-400
08 Bayou Mud Racing 3rd 701+up
08 PSR Texas Mudfest Pro A 1st R1
08 PSR Texas Mudfest Pro A 1st R2
08 C.M.R CanAm Nats Mud Drag 2nd
08 C.M.R. H'coming C3 Bog 3rd
08 C.M.R. H'coming SwampX C1 3rd
www.flickr.com/photos/cale_angela/sets/

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Post #: 41

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/19/2008 7:14:40 AM

GeorgiaGrizz05

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gravehunter

Measurements: We used a level on top of the tire and measured down to the concrete at each psi level. With 2 people we could do this more accuratly. The front Witches ran quite a bit short.

MST at 3psi: 27" even
Witch at 3psi: 26 5/8"

MST at 5psi: 27 1/8"
Witch at 5psi: 26 11/16"

MST at 7psi: 27 3/16"
Witch at 7psi: 26 15/16"

MSTat 10psi: 27 7/16"
Witch at 10psi: 27 1/8"

MST at 15lbs: 27 3/4"
Witch at 15lbs: 27 1/2"

um, close to being true. but since we all usually dont run more than 5psi they are almost an inch short.

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Post #: 42

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/19/2008 7:14:28 PM

Kesa

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Lokks like the mud advantage would be with the witch having the lug spacing further than the mst's. Plus the mst's run short. Kind of surprised.

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Post #: 43

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/19/2008 11:17:21 PM

sawhead

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kesa...look at the info again on tire height

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wide open & sideways every chance i get

bf650...almond & almond springs/full pro circuit/26 terra xd on black torks/dyna/penlock

p700...almond & almond springs/27 vamp,bi claw on 4x4s/dyna/full muzzy

kymco mxu150...22 mudlites

mst/other mud trail tire review

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Post #: 44

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/19/2008 11:55:22 PM

Mahly

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If those are for 28" tires, both run a bit short with the ruler/level method.
PESONALLY I don't like the ruler/level method. Some tires flex more with the same amount of air...meaning to get the same stiffness, you need more air...then you get your lift back
PREFERABLY, you would measure the diameter level to the ground (not vertical) that shows what the actual diameter of the tire is unloaded...THERE is where you will see the stated tire diameter.
Example: I have 26" Bighorns (according to Maxxis they are 26.4" diameter) measured with the ruler level, they are right at 26.4 to 26.5 at 4Psi. Measured top to bottom, they are 25.25" do my tires run small? I don't think so...ATVs come in a variety of sizes and weights...a 400cc Honda will make a tire look taller than a 800cc Polaris X2. It's not the tires fault. they are MADE to flex
The TRUE proper way to measure a tire is circumference divided by Pi (3.14159....)
I'd like to know the UNLOADED tire diameters for these tires.

< Message edited by Mahly -- 3/19/2008 11:57:16 PM >

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Post #: 45

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/20/2008 11:07:14 AM

Mahly

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Oh yeah....I'd also love to know how these tires compare when riding! Gravehunter....get RIDING!!!! The world wants to know

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Post #: 46

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/20/2008 11:10:14 AM

Rancherboy

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THEY LOOK IDENTICAL.

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Post #: 47

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/20/2008 11:11:46 AM

Mahly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gravehunter

Front Width: mounted on 7" rim with 5lbs of air.

MST: 9.125"
Witch: 9.75"

quote:

ORIGINAL: gravehunter

These widths are mounted with the quads weight on them.
MST 28 x 9.5" front: 9 3/4"
Witch 28 x 10" front: 9 1/16"

Thumbnail Image

Is this a typo (get one backwards)? Or is this just showing the MST flexing MORE with the weight on the ATV on it?

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Post #: 48

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/20/2008 1:44:33 PM

outdrsmn82

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I JUST ORDERED THE WITCHES AND WHEN I GET THEM I AM GOING TO GIVE A, AS BEST AS I CAN DO RIDE REPORT ON THEM. I AM GOING TO BE ABLE TO COMPARE THEM TO THE MUDZILLA AND THE EXECUTIONER. MY BUDS RIDE WITH THEM. ILL START A NEW THREAD WITH ALL THE INFO YALL ASK FOR. ON ALL THREE TIRES.
(EXECUTIONERS 25X8/10X12)
(MUDZILLA 27X9/12X12)
(MINE: SWAMPWITCHES 26X10X12S ALL AROUND)

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Post #: 49

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/20/2008 6:04:19 PM

sawhead

Posts: 3881
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From: nebraska
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mahly

If those are for 28" tires, both run a bit short with the ruler/level method.
PESONALLY I don't like the ruler/level method. Some tires flex more with the same amount of air...meaning to get the same stiffness, you need more air...then you get your lift back
PREFERABLY, you would measure the diameter level to the ground (not vertical) that shows what the actual diameter of the tire is unloaded...THERE is where you will see the stated tire diameter.
Example: I have 26" Bighorns (according to Maxxis they are 26.4" diameter) measured with the ruler level, they are right at 26.4 to 26.5 at 4Psi. Measured top to bottom, they are 25.25" do my tires run small? I don't think so...ATVs come in a variety of sizes and weights...a 400cc Honda will make a tire look taller than a 800cc Polaris X2. It's not the tires fault. they are MADE to flex
The TRUE proper way to measure a tire is circumference divided by Pi (3.14159....)
I'd like to know the UNLOADED tire diameters for these tires.

imo,true GC comes from the level to ground method...more air equals a stiffer ride and less traction in most cases also...the one listed above doesn't really mean squat for the quad either at an unloaded state...what are the advantages of know ing the tires height when unloaded???lots of them when loaded...

_____________________________

Nebraska woods/mud/creek rider
wide open & sideways every chance i get

bf650...almond & almond springs/full pro circuit/26 terra xd on black torks/dyna/penlock

p700...almond & almond springs/27 vamp,bi claw on 4x4s/dyna/full muzzy

kymco mxu150...22 mudlites

mst/other mud trail tire review

(in reply to Mahly)

Post #: 50

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/20/2008 11:02:19 PM

Mahly

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I'm just saying one might have a little more sidewall give will lower air settings. The Swamp witch might ride a little softer at the same PSI, but be a little smaller. It might ride the SAME with a little more air...and also then be the same size. Though I doubt this is exactly the case here...you would need 7-8psi in the front witch to match 3 Psi in the MST.
But for someone to say this tire is short or that tire is short because they have a heavy quad isn't fait to the tire if the tire REALLY does measure to size.
Also for real world gearing, the unloaded height is going to tell you more about your final gearing than how much the tire squats under load.

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Post #: 51

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/20/2008 11:32:58 PM

sawhead

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got ya...i agree also

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Nebraska woods/mud/creek rider
wide open & sideways every chance i get

bf650...almond & almond springs/full pro circuit/26 terra xd on black torks/dyna/penlock

p700...almond & almond springs/27 vamp,bi claw on 4x4s/dyna/full muzzy

kymco mxu150...22 mudlites

mst/other mud trail tire review

(in reply to Mahly)

Post #: 52

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/21/2008 7:20:09 AM

gravehunter

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Sorry guys i havn't been on the site for a while.

Its just thawed out here over the last 2 weeks but i've had a broken tie rod end so no riding.

In snow, frozen ground, ice(ponds) etc... there has been no noticable difference that either one of us can tell.

Hopfully we will get some sloppy trail, mud etc.. reviews in soon now that the ground is thawed out.

I like to measure tires the way we did in the start of this thread for many reasons. One.. thats teh measurement that matters!! Ground clearance! I don't care what a tire measures laying on the ground, measuring it around and divide by pie.. what does that tell me.. it tells me info that doesn't matter to me in real riding condiitions. Measureing the way we did tells you the true height you get when mounted with the weight of the quad at normal air pressures. That tells you ground clearance and that is what matters IMO. I mean why else do you buy bigger tires?

I realize that changes with the heavier or lighter quads and is why the tire mfg don't rate them this way, but it all seems misleading to me because using that method you need to buy a bigger tire than what you thought you would.

All personal preference.

I'll check back tongiht when i get home from work for anyones questions i missed.

_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

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Post #: 53

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/21/2008 12:11:01 PM

Mahly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gravehunter
I don't care what a tire measures laying on the ground, measuring it around and divide by pie.. what does that tell me.. it tells me info that doesn't matter to me in real riding conditions....

The only thing that the circumference method (or just an unloaded measurement) would tell you would be if one tire has a smaller circumference (i.e. front vs. rear) you could see if that is going to be a strain on the drive train pushing tires of different circumferences.

You had noted that the front Swamp witch was significantly smaller than the rear. Knowing if that is just more tire squat in the front vs. a truely different size tire would be good to know.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't ripping your methods or your post. Just discussing why one tire might be "smaller" than another in this situation.
I am VERY thankful that you went to all the work you guys did to start this thread.
Keep up the good work!

< Message edited by Mahly -- 3/21/2008 12:12:52 PM >

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Post #: 54

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/23/2008 1:15:58 PM

Mahly

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P.S. Now get out RIDING!!!! The World want to know :-)

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Post #: 55

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/23/2008 3:23:56 PM

Gearslayer

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Good point Mahly on the squat. I look forward to the ride comparison also.

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Post #: 56

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/23/2008 8:29:17 PM

Mahly

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OTHER that rutted mud pits (which I will likely never see) what is the benefit of the larger side lugs? Would the more rounded profile of the witches somewhat compensate for the shorter side lugs on things like straddling a washout?

Back to the squatting issue...methinks that the fronts being more rounded than the MST is a likely reason for the tire sitting lower with the weight of the ATV on it..less rounded means more squat...and that would bring the footprint back to being close to the MST...but without the added stability the flat profile might give.

Still looking for a solid reason that the MST is worth $75 more a set to ME. NOT saying it doesn't exist...just looking for it.

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Post #: 57

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/26/2008 2:28:22 PM

Mattd76

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I didn't want to start a new thread so here's my question. Does anyone know how well the swamp witches do at high speeds? How do they compare to MST's?

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Post #: 58

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/27/2008 8:28:04 AM

outdrsmn82

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i just got 2 of my witches in (4-26x10x12) and the other 2 should be in today and i am going to have them mounted tomm. for a ride this weekend and i am going to start a new thread (maybe) but i will get a high speed report on them but my bike only does 52mph. hope thats high enough for u.

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Post #: 59

RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 3/27/2008 2:30:34 PM

Mattd76

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52 is fast engough for me because I rarely go above like 45

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