bushhog & 27" mst review

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bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 12:55:08 AM

sawhead

Posts: 3881
Joined: 2/23/2006
From: nebraska
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i have run executioners,589s,bugs,vamps,vamp asx,bear claws,badland xtr(superb no mud trail tire),mudlite xtrs,mudlite xl,super grips,alltraks,swamp foxes, a few more(i can never remember them all)...all have been 27"-28" tall and the bugs have been the best by far out of all of them...i am as alot of you know a hardcore mudbug guy...so,the mst are next in line

the 27" mst arrived today...i will give as full a review as possible after this weekend...can't wait to try them in the snow this winter...my initial reaction when i saw them was,"how in the **** are those gonna clean out!!!"...i saw the fronts first and the lugs are spaced really close together,the rears are a quite a bit more open,but not like i am used to with my bugs...not sure how they are gonna do cleaning out in the sticky slop or the bottomless mud still...i am used to being able to just walk my wheeler thru the mud with little wheel spin,so it might take a little getting used to...the tread face is definitely very flat and the side lugs are a bit simialr to my bugs,but they're actually a bit longer...the 8" & 10" bugs don't have much for side lug when compared to a 12" bug,but the mst have equal side lugs on all widths!!!overall,they're kinda on the skinny side,about .5" wider would have helped with floatation alot,but would've made them heavier,so give and take...i can't wait to try them out this weekend

i mount all my own tires...the only tires i did not mount myself were my executioners,anyone that has ever seen them in person knows why...very,very stiff and that rim gaurd looks menacing...anyways,these were some of the hardest tires to mount...i definitely had to work to get them on!!!i just use my hands,feet and a couple of big screw drivers,usually takes me about 5 mins. per tire,these took about 15 mins. per tire...that nice flat tread face was hard to work with

after getting them mounted,aired up to 4 psi(i need to get a digital air gauge that reads under 4,i plan on running them at 3 psi),and bolted onto the quad...it was after midnight,thus very dark,so i just took a 5 minute spin...wow,they ride smooth as glass!!!i am used to my bugs and don't notice that under 10 mph jitter the tires give me,but after that short ride on the mst,it's definitely gonna be noticeable now...they are a great smooth ride...my bugs turn kinda hard,the mst are effortless...i think my 6 year old little girl could turn these with ease!!!it's wierd not having to muscle the bars a bit to turn...it was a very short ride,so that's all i have right now...i'll have alot more after the weekend

as far as height goes,when under the quad,the mst were 26.25 front and back...about the same as the bugs

i took some pics for people to get a look at them compared to the infamous bugs

Thumbnail Image

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Nebraska woods/mud/creek rider
wide open & sideways every chance i get

bf650...almond & almond springs/full pro circuit/26 terra xd on black torks/dyna/penlock

p700...almond & almond springs/27 vamp,bi claw on 4x4s/dyna/full muzzy

kymco mxu150...22 mudlites

mst/other mud trail tire review

Post #: 1

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 12:58:23 AM

sawhead

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From: nebraska
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27x12 mst/28x12 bug...sorry for the heights not being the same...the 28" are what i hade mounted,thus it's a little unfair comparison...my 27" bugs are much closer to the same width as the mst,a bit wider still,but not much

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RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 1:00:01 AM

sawhead

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From: nebraska
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side view

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RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 1:01:35 AM

sawhead

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27x9.5 mst/28x10 bug

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RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 1:03:00 AM

sawhead

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side view

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RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 1:06:30 AM

sawhead

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From: nebraska
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here's to give ya an idea of how 27" bugs and 27" mst compare...i took the same pic a while back when comparing my 27x12 bugs to 27x12 swamp foxes,thus i took the same pic with the 27x12 mst and 27x12 swamp fox...it appears that the bugs is just slightly wider than the mst

27" bugs/foxes

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Post #: 6

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 1:08:22 AM

sawhead

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27" mst/fox

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RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 1:09:40 AM

sawhead

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From: nebraska
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27" mst on my wheeler...they look funny not being dirty yet!!!

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Post #: 8

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 7:10:36 AM

BUSHHOG

Posts: 2569
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From: SHREVEPORT,LA.
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Hello Sawhead, glad you gave our MST's a chance. I think you will find out they are what everyone say's they are. A great tire ! The one thing I guess I never knew is that you are a "hard core" mudder. Keep in mind that the MST is an "all terrain" tire and not a pure mud tire. It is for people who want a smooth ride, yet have a tire that will pull good in most mud and still traction on hard slick surfaces. The MST's will do that big time. However, they won't hang in super bad bottomless mud with our "pure mud" Outlaw tire. I hope your mud expectations are not to un-realistic. I think you will find in most tasks, to include mud, they will outperform your Bugs. Thanks again for your business. I appreciate it.

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Post #: 9

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 8:00:46 AM

alwaysbroke

Posts: 1040
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From: So. Illinois, Down by the River
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Nice Post!

I guess I should start saving my pennies for a set of MST's. I'm not happy with my bugs and havn't been for awhile now. For me the bugs did not hold up to all the hype......nor do they wear remotley close to what everybody said.

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RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 9:12:48 AM

B Man

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great post sawhead!!!

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Post #: 11

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 10:16:03 AM

ncmudman

Posts: 1818
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From: Hayeseville North Carolina
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Its a showdown now!!!!!
At least his first impression on the ride ride was good.
Sawhead, I'm sure you'll like the MST's. I bet with some time you can get used to them, and enjoy them even more.

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Post #: 12

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 12:07:33 PM

SWAMP HAWG

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From: Louisiana
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Nice side by side pics!
Let us know if they clean out and pull as good as your bugs in mud, Its easy to see they would ride smoother.
I was initially not at all impressed with MST's as my first few encounters with them I saw them performing rather poorly in the mud. I say poorly as compared to the other "pure mud" tires that were out there. I had just bought a set of like new 27" Radial Laws to ride in the national forest because of the 1" lug B.S. being enforced. I took my "trail tires" (the R laws) out to try em out in one of our favorite riding riding spots. The only two machines that kept getting stuck were the grizz with MST's and an AC with the stock MTR's. The Radial Laws were unreal smooth compared to the "pure mudders" that ride with us, and paddled their way every where the big boys went. They did so well in the mud, that I just left them on my bike for a couple more rides.We beat up on the MST's two more times, until the owner bought a new set of wheels and 29.5 laws, so he could have the best of both worlds. He rides the MST on occasion with us in the national forest and the do great on the trail and climbing hills. I understand that the MST's are not intended as a mud only tire, I'll probably end up with a set of 28's if my R laws ever wear out just to go to the forest with. It's just disappointing to see so much hype over a tire that I feel for my riding is not the equal of the Radial Outlaw it replaces. Just my 2cents
Like I said I'll probably end up with a set of them in the future unless something better with 1" lugs comes out.

_____________________________

04 Arctic Cat 650 4x4
29.5" SUPER OUTLAWS,
28" EDL's,
27" RADIAL OUTLAWS,
HL lift kit,
2500#warn,
epi red&pink springs
03 Arctic Cat 400i 4x4 < sold
27magnum mud machinebi/tri claws
HL lift kit
2500#warn,
ATTEX 6X6,
MAX II 6x6,
Honda 70 3 wheeler

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Post #: 13

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 1:29:19 PM

sawhead

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From: nebraska
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BUSHHOG

Hello Sawhead, glad you gave our MST's a chance. I think you will find out they are what everyone say's they are. A great tire ! The one thing I guess I never knew is that you are a "hard core" mudder. Keep in mind that the MST is an "all terrain" tire and not a pure mud tire. It is for people who want a smooth ride, yet have a tire that will pull good in most mud and still traction on hard slick surfaces. The MST's will do that big time. However, they won't hang in super bad bottomless mud with our "pure mud" Outlaw tire. I hope your mud expectations are not to un-realistic. I think you will find in most tasks, to include mud, they will outperform your Bugs. Thanks again for your business. I appreciate it.

not a hard core mudder,hard core mudbug guy...but if there's mud around i do not have the will power to stay out of it and it sucks getting stuck...i do not expect these to never get stuck,my bugs get me stuck on occasion or is it me that gets me stuck...lol,lol!!!i have no use for a truely dedicated mud tire as i ride alot of fast tight trails also...mud,powerslides,and wheelis is what it's all about!!!anyways,Bman is wondering about my tire heights,so i am gonna remeasure them today to make sure...it was after midnight when i finally got them squared away,so i may have looked at the tape wrong...keep in mind that i take all my measurements when mounted on the quad to account for tire squat and real world Ground Clearance...my bf650 weighs about 700 lbs. loaded...i have no doubts that they measured over 27" before going onto my quad,the bugs did the same thing...anyways, i am not dissappointed thus far,but this show down has a long ways to go still

_____________________________

Nebraska woods/mud/creek rider
wide open & sideways every chance i get

bf650...almond & almond springs/full pro circuit/26 terra xd on black torks/dyna/penlock

p700...almond & almond springs/27 vamp,bi claw on 4x4s/dyna/full muzzy

kymco mxu150...22 mudlites

mst/other mud trail tire review

(in reply to BUSHHOG)

Post #: 14

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/1/2006 9:40:15 PM

B Man

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I though that mine just looked little b/c of the 2" lift and me use to my 29.5's. But I got curious sawhead after you said that and had to measure mine today. with 3psi mine measure 25 1/4" and i pumped them up to 5psi and they measured 25 3/4". Thats measurements on the bike that weighs 602lbs factory. I'd say about 640lbs now. I'm just woundering if our brutes are heavier than these guys that sai there are true to 1/4" over the size listed.

But, i would have to say that i had them at 66mph this afternoon on the speedo and they still were like factory's as far as handling. So i can live with the measurements for as good as they have been so far. I'm still very pleased with mine and wouldn't trade them for any other mud tire b/c their purpose for me was highspeeds, sand, light mud, and hunting.

I still haven't tried them in the mud yet but hope to tomorrow!

_____________________________

2007 Rhino 660 Sport Edition
2006 BF 650i
2001 400 BigBear 4wd

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http://www.putfile.com/brute650i

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Post #: 15

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/2/2006 12:06:07 AM

sawhead

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From: nebraska
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ok...after 3 hours of just test riding today,i hit a lot of stuff and here's what it boils down to as of now...

mud,mud,mud...bugs mud better than mst for sure overall...when hitting the really sticky stuff,i definitely had to stay on throttle to keep moving otherwise the mst would not clean out and ball up(in 2wd the fronts balled up very badly)...whereas the bugs i could just walk right thru it with no wheel spin and they clean themselves out...bottomless muck,the mst dropped to the bottom,i kept moving,but it was slow going and alot of work...not saying the mst will not make it thru,but no where near as easily as my bugs...in the muck that had a solid bottom when hard on the throttle,i do believe i could cut thru it alot faster with the mst than the bugs...basically if ya wanna make it thru a mudhole,it you'll need plenty of wheel spin to get thru it

mst with 3.5 psi still rides stiffer on the trails than my bugs with 4 psi...they have a very stiff tread face,i need to try 3 psi and see what happens

the mst handling on trails/roads is far superior to bugs...felt like i was driving a porsche,anywhere i pointed the handle bars,that's where my quad went immediately...it took very little turning of the bars to make it change direction and as posted above,very,very easy to steer...the only thing i did not like about the handling is the mst had some shimmy when over 40 mph,it was not as bad as some tires i have tried,but still there

climbing ability...on the trails,mst will walk all over the bugs(i wish the bugs would climb even nearly this well,they do not),but when walking out of a mudhole the bugs take the cake

bugs/mst tire heights pretty much the same

wet packed sand...my bugs wil pull a wheelie,mst will not

loose dry sand...both dig in it,but the mst dig deeper when wide open throttle or not,they just dig in the sand...if already moving and steady throttle is applied i think they will out accelerate bugs,not sure just how it felt...i hate sand!!!

creek riding with a sand bottom...very good here for some reason beings they are not impressive in any other sandy situation,i would say better than the bugs...much easier to steer the mst when on the throttle in the water...the only time they did worse than the bugs was climbing a sand based incline in a portion of the creek where the water moves a little bit faster,i was stuck almost immediately...my bugs make it thru this spot,feels like they are about to get stuck,but they always make it...a spot like this is just hard for any tire period though

rocks...i do not have any rocky areas around here to try,sorry...i am sure the mst will be better due to lug pattern

over taking logs...mst have this one in the bag if their wet...bugs hate climbing wet logs

sidehilling...mst wins again,that should have been obvious though

tread wear...i see no way that the bugs will wear better than the mst,no way!!!

i am sure i missed something,so if need be ask me if i tried it,i'm tired and i got a 2 hour drive in a few hours,so i gotta hit the sack

overall,i'd say bugs still overcome in the mud as far as ease of making it thru the hole...that's neither good nor bad,just the way it is...mst are a definite winner of a trail tire...they're light in weight,killer manners,and will still get ya thru the mudhole with a little finess...am i dissappointed,not at all,it's basically what i expected,except for how easy they steer and the awesome handling,these 2 items are far beyond what i expected them to be like!!!if you're a woods racer,these would be an excellent tire if you can get past the weight issue as most of you guys want a lighter tire

i will give them some more time and see if anything changes

bugs 60% mud/40% trail
mst 40% mud/60% trail

_____________________________

Nebraska woods/mud/creek rider
wide open & sideways every chance i get

bf650...almond & almond springs/full pro circuit/26 terra xd on black torks/dyna/penlock

p700...almond & almond springs/27 vamp,bi claw on 4x4s/dyna/full muzzy

kymco mxu150...22 mudlites

mst/other mud trail tire review

(in reply to B Man)

Post #: 16

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/2/2006 12:06:11 AM

Crkaminer

Posts: 185
Joined: 6/21/2006
From: Jackson, Mississippi
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I am very interested in a further review sawhead. They do ride smooth dont they!

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06 Foreman 500 S 4x4
HL Diamond Plate Skid Package
CV Boot Guards
Honda 4x4 Wheels
26x9.5x12 Outlaw MSTs
26x12x12 Outlaw MSTs
Uni Air Filter

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Post #: 17

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/2/2006 12:13:49 AM

sawhead

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From: nebraska
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yes they are...i am amazed at the handling,one little movement of the bars and she's off in the direction you point her immediately,and the ease of steering!!!

i absolutely,100% say that bugs are better in the mud...i have to do alot more work to get the mst thru some of the holes that the bugs will walk right thru without my help

it's hard decision as to which i like better due to the astounding trail abilities of the mst and the mud abilities of the bugs...with all the other tires,it was no contest,the bugs were far superior as far as my opinion goes..most of the other tires have either been alot heavier,dig badly,or grabby on the trails,but the mst are great tires,just not where i want them to be in the mudhole...

< Message edited by sawhead -- 9/2/2006 12:17:56 AM >

_____________________________

Nebraska woods/mud/creek rider
wide open & sideways every chance i get

bf650...almond & almond springs/full pro circuit/26 terra xd on black torks/dyna/penlock

p700...almond & almond springs/27 vamp,bi claw on 4x4s/dyna/full muzzy

kymco mxu150...22 mudlites

mst/other mud trail tire review

(in reply to Crkaminer)

Post #: 18

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/2/2006 1:07:03 AM

bmdjmd

Posts: 541
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Ya know sawhead i was hoping someone that rides like myself would buy these tires and you have, i appreciate your open and honest cander regarding these tires. i after having my 26" bugs am thrilled beyond belief, that said i was all prepared to drop the big bucks on getting me some MST's in canada, now that i know i will work harder in the mudholes i think the bugs will get upsized and remain. I do believe that if these tires become available in canada with ease and without it costing me an arm and a leg i will probably get me some, but until then i will run the bugs for my mud duties and my Badlands for the trails. Thanks for the great honest review.

_____________________________

03 Grizz Blue
ITP SS112 chrome
28" Outlaw MST
HL Aluminum Skids
HL Front bumper
HMF utility in BLUE
Twin air
Dalton Clutch
Mud Flap Girl Shift Knob
54" warn plow
2500# Warn winch

www.mudhole.ca

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Post #: 19

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/2/2006 8:45:08 AM

ncmudman

Posts: 1818
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Great review, and thanks for the honest comparision. No doubt, To me just by looking at the tread designs of both, I would agree with you that Bugs are better in mud, and MSTs on the trial.

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01 Rancher 350ES 2x4 stock (Dads) Past ATV's AC 250 Honda Recon 87 TRX 125
00 Chevy Z71-Pro Comp Xtreme M/Ts, Dynomax Bullet exhaust

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Post #: 20

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/2/2006 7:57:33 PM

B Man

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Alright sawhead, I finally sucked it up today and went riding with my mst's when we when bogging today. I hit every mud hole i could find and every type that i seen from clay, black, sandy/black, sandy/clay, and some thick black pond gumbo mud.

And i have to agree that they had led the race against every tire i have ridden as far as, dirts roads, highways, fast trails, difficult obstacles like hills, rocky banks, and wet clay hills. In all these areas except the wet clay hills they excelled as i have been telling everyone, But never got the chance to actually just mud in some bad holes all i went through was light stuff.

In sandy/clay mud they, the first hole i tried. I got my buddy to get it good and soupy with his laws so i could really test them. They did good and cleaned good until it came to climbing out. They didn't push like my laws or bugs, didn't dig and pull like my vamps or 589's. They had a diffrent feel, they would float better than the diggers but didn't push as good as my old bugs. all they did was spin in the sandy clay and finally dug there selves down to the frame. I was able to go back and fourth SEVERAL times before getting stuck, just couldn't climb out.

Next was the clay, it was difficult compared to the bugs and vamps since clay usually has a bottom and vamps will clean and pull you through easily and bug floatd and pushed me through, but they did impress me compared to the previous hole and flooated ok but i had to stay on the throttle and move around a little more.

Black mud they cleaned good with a little throttle and grabbed and pulled me right through. They seemed to shine in this the best. This is just the general mud that you encounter from water standing over long periods.

Then the last hole was in a half dried old cypress pond with thick black gumbo. I really like the tires in here! They pulled better than my bugs and vamps. They seemed to clean good with small jolts on the throttle while going through it. When i went through this they floated excellent and pushed like bugs i would say they would be equal in this mud. But i went to the frame several times, backed back out and shoot the gas and made it every time.

All in all my observations off the tires was that they are an intermediate tire b/t bugs and vamps. Both of these two are better at climbing out or pushing you through a hole. And the front tires on the mst's would ball up easier ( rear tires never did). Sawhead was correct about it taking a little more work but in some situations they were better. This tire will be my overall pick b/c of it excelling in all the other areas, but being just a little less of a mud tire.

Sorry for the long post, LOL

Oh, wasn't trying to still the thread sawhead just knew there was no sense in two mst review threads

Looking foward to your thoughts to see if we agree

< Message edited by B Man -- 9/2/2006 8:02:37 PM >

_____________________________

2007 Rhino 660 Sport Edition
2006 BF 650i
2001 400 BigBear 4wd

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http://www.putfile.com/brute650i

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Post #: 21

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/4/2006 1:04:01 PM

sawhead

Posts: 3881
Joined: 2/23/2006
From: nebraska
Status: offline

you didn't steal it Bman...good post...i do agree...we rode most of the weekend and had our local bogs with all the farmers...will post some new results and info that changed slightly later tonight

< Message edited by sawhead -- 9/4/2006 6:10:45 PM >

_____________________________

Nebraska woods/mud/creek rider
wide open & sideways every chance i get

bf650...almond & almond springs/full pro circuit/26 terra xd on black torks/dyna/penlock

p700...almond & almond springs/27 vamp,bi claw on 4x4s/dyna/full muzzy

kymco mxu150...22 mudlites

mst/other mud trail tire review

(in reply to B Man)

Post #: 22

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/4/2006 6:44:57 PM

rancherrida360

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so they can do mud but need more movement than bugs.

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Post #: 23

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/4/2006 6:53:46 PM

sawhead

Posts: 3881
Joined: 2/23/2006
From: nebraska
Status: offline

ok....lots and lots riding this weekend and a few things changed...i put my 27" bugs back under my quad(as all the info listed above is compared to 28" bugs,which is a bit unfair as the width is noticeabley wider than 27" bugs which will make it float better in the slop...27" bugs are pretty much the same width as the 27" mst)and i had the hieght info wrong from memory...the 27" bugs with 4 psi were about 25.75,thus they were not equal to the mst in hieght,they were in fact .5" shorter when under the quads weight as stated above in how i do my tire measurements...also,the tread face on the mst is definitely stronger/thicker than the bugs,but the sidewalls seem about the same...keep in mind that both are 6 ply tires,but that doesn't mean squat in the atv tire business as how thick the plies are is what really matters...i have run some tires that were 2 ply and just as thick as some other 6 ply tires

we had some farmer bogs here that we do once a year...it has a semi hard bottom,watery beginning,and thick sticky ending...a few timed trial runs proved that the mst were faster in this situation for sure(i wish i would have run them from the begiiing,but my bugs were already proven to me and i did not want to run a new to me tire without the necesary seat time on them)!!!i ran the mst after all was done...

also,we did alot of riding on both of my tires thru the same areas...i am so tired of changing tires,but i wanted to be as sure as possible of my results...we did alot of muddy/dry minimum maintenence road runs(they are a good mix of everything except rocks),steep dirt hills/grass hills,fast thick/thin gravel roads,cow pastures,hay fields(these were nice and smooth for speed)...every where the mst prevailed

here's where things changed after alot more time on them this weekend...the mst have overtaken the bugs in mud!!!read the post from Bman,we have equal info!!!the best bottomless mud i found this weekend was out in the old cow pasture,it was a 5 year old watering hole which was definitely bottomless...the bugs would walk thru it still keeping you dry/clean and take minimal throttle,but they did not gain much timed speed when hitting the throttle hard...with the mst,i still had to run more throttle to keep moving and keep the tires cleaned out,but when i would hit it hard,the times were much faster than the bugs and i never got stuck...thus,i have to say mst will mud better/faster and the tides have turned in this category and they will back up in the slop better than anything i have run!!!

the only spots where the bugs prevail and always will is when climbing out of a mudhole that has even a moderately steep bank/side and in the sand whether it's hard packed or powder soft...mst dig like crazy in the sand (doesn't matter to me cuz i hate the sand anyways) and don't clean out or whatever well enough to climb out of a mudhole with a bank...a few times in order to climb out of the steeper sided mudholes i had to dismount and she'd climb up with a bit of my help...this is a little disgruntleing.but is forgiven when i think of all the other benefits from these tires over all others including my beloved bugs

the only thing i would change about the mst is the front tire lug spacing,they difinitely need to have a little more space for cleanout,maybe this is what keeps them from out climbing bugs!!!i hope bushhog reads this part for sure! as it would be a great,great benefit for the mst...change the lug spacing on the front tires a bit if possible!!!it's probably not gonna happen,but it would be a great benefit nonetheless...not too mention it would also lighten the front tires up a bit more

no more needs to be said at this point about the mst and it hurts me to say it,but it's gotta be done and i never thought i'd say it,but the others were right in their postings...sorry i doubted you guys,but sometimes that happens until it's seen for ones self...anyone doubting the mst,don't!!!

goodbye mudbugs...hello mst

pics are front tires 27" bugs with psi next to 27" mst with 3.5 psi

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< Message edited by sawhead -- 9/4/2006 7:07:56 PM >

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Nebraska woods/mud/creek rider
wide open & sideways every chance i get

bf650...almond & almond springs/full pro circuit/26 terra xd on black torks/dyna/penlock

p700...almond & almond springs/27 vamp,bi claw on 4x4s/dyna/full muzzy

kymco mxu150...22 mudlites

mst/other mud trail tire review

(in reply to sawhead)

Post #: 24

RE: bushhog & 27" mst review - 9/4/2006 7:09:42 PM

sawhead

Posts: 3881