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What size winch?

 
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What size winch? - 9/15/2008 3:38:50 PM   
coolcloo1019


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So my birthday is coming up next month and my g/f wants to get me something for the 4 wheeler. I told her I'd like to get a winch. I'm going to get a Viper but was wondering what size I should get. Would I be ok with a 2500 or do I need a 3000? I'm not really sure how to determine what size I would need. Any help? Thanks. 

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RE: What size winch? - 9/15/2008 3:40:20 PM   
vanillagorilla


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go with a 3000lb.  bigger is better

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RE: What size winch? - 9/15/2008 3:45:13 PM   
kidsoncoffee


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A 2500 lb winch used with a snatch block turns it into a 5000 lb winch.   Just something to think about.

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RE: What size winch? - 9/15/2008 4:22:31 PM   
devildog12210


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Get the 12000lbs recovery winch!!!! The 2500 would be fine but you can never have too much winch IMO. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

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RE: What size winch? - 9/15/2008 4:36:37 PM   
minitrk


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I have to agree with everyone... bigger IS better in this case. its always better to have and not need, than need and not have. 3k-3.5k will def be best.

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RE: What size winch? - 9/15/2008 7:10:59 PM   
Hatchie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kidsoncoffee

A 2500 lb winch used with a snatch block turns it into a 5000 lb winch.   Just something to think about.


I really like my 3K Viper. With a snatch block it's a 6K!!

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Post #: 6
RE: What size winch? - 9/15/2008 8:06:18 PM   
toyazman76


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I have a 2500 but it came with it. If I had my choice I would deff go bigger. It's like having a six banger in a full size truck, yea it will get it done but an 8 banger gets it done easier and faster.

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RE: What size winch? - 9/16/2008 6:42:28 PM   
Massmudman


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A snatch block only changes the direction of pull and lets you have more line out therefore allowing your winch to operate more closely to original rated capacity.  If you use 2 snatch blocks then the pulling power will be increased to more than it was rated for.  As for the winch size, go with the biggest you can afford, but a 3000# will work great for ya.

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RE: What size winch? - 9/16/2008 11:03:24 PM   
POPO800EFI


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This is where I really do not feel bigger is better.....I would go with the Warn XT25 2500lb with a synthetic rope

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RE: What size winch? - 9/17/2008 5:14:57 AM   
Massmudman


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A 2500# winch is just simply not enough when a quad gets up to the racks. I do highly agree on getting the synthetic rope.

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Post #: 10
RE: What size winch? - 9/20/2008 2:44:08 AM   
Hatchie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: POPO800EFI

This is where I really do not feel bigger is better.....I would go with the Warn XT25 2500lb with a synthetic rope

The reason I got a Viper 3000 is because my Warn 2500 wouldn't pull out my Grizzly.
The reason I didn't get a 4000 is because I didn't know if it would fit.

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Post #: 11
RE: What size winch? - 9/20/2008 6:06:57 AM   
Massmudman


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I figured that any winch larger than 3000# would probably bend my frame at the attachment point if I really needed any more power to pull something out.

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Post #: 12
RE: What size winch? - 9/21/2008 7:31:41 PM   
Wurth

 

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I have had Vipers,and Warn..I had  a 4500# Viper max,and now have a Warn XT 3000# the warn 3000# is a lot stonger,Quiter, and faster than the Viper .And yes it cost a lot more ,but it works every time I go to use it......Im not sure how good Warns customer service is because I have never had to use it ...(lol)

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RE: What size winch? - 9/21/2008 8:31:55 PM   
700Blaze


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bigger is better........

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RE: What size winch? - 9/21/2008 8:58:40 PM   
Kodiak 450


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Don't Forget guys a 3,000 pound winch only lifts half (1500)
They are rated on a 45 degree incline...

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Post #: 15
RE: What size winch? - 10/4/2008 8:38:47 AM   
Timbo

 

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Warn 3.0

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RE: What size winch? - 10/4/2008 9:35:36 AM   
TeamMudd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Massmudman

A snatch block only changes the direction of pull and lets you have more line out therefore allowing your winch to operate more closely to original rated capacity.  If you use 2 snatch blocks then the pulling power will be increased to more than it was rated for.  As for the winch size, go with the biggest you can afford, but a 3000# will work great for ya.

might need to check out a rock crawling forum

if you snatch block back to your point of origin you are doubling the capacity.  from your bumper to a snatch block on a tree BACK to your bumper, you'll double your line pull.

now if you run from your bumper to a snatch block on a tree then at a 90 degree angle to another tree, you are working with your original line pull.

i agree with BIGER IS BETTER!  get you a 3000-4000 to be on the safe side. 

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Post #: 17
RE: What size winch? - 10/4/2008 1:16:38 PM   
Massmudman


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Whatever  I know perfectly well how a winch works and how snatch blocks affect line pull and winch capacity. I was merely trying to help someones common misunderstanding that a 2500# winch will increase to a 5000# winch with a single snatch block. This is just not true. It will double your line and increase your pulling power to more than that of  what a single line pull would have done. It does this as a result of the amount of wraps of line around the drum. The snatch  block just changes the direction of pull. Now, like you said, if there are 2 or more snatch blocks then it will start to double, triple  etc... the winches original pulling capacity.
I do believe there is too big of a winch for a machine though. If you have a SxS then the larger winches are a great idea, but if you only have a qtility quad, usually a 2500-3000# will suffice. If you go too big, not only can your electrical system not handle the loads, you really run the risk of wrenching your quads frame. I run with friends who all carry line extensions and extra straps with their Viper snatch blocks just in case we need to get creative to get our machines out of a bind. Pulling up and out on a really stuck quad with the use of straps and a good strong tree will result in a much easier pull as opposed to just pulling it through it. 

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Post #: 18
RE: What size winch? - 10/13/2008 2:23:48 AM   
Tbonesbrute

 

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for ur eiger a 2500lb would b more than enough to get u outa any situation. if u plan on a lift and 29.5s i would prolly go 3000 or 3500. i suggest a **rilla winch. they have all metal gears...are waterproof...AND guaranteed for life! u can get a 2500 for less than 220 bucks! im gettin the 3500 outback for less than $290 WITH the mounting plate for my brute.

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Post #: 19
RE: What size winch? - 10/13/2008 4:49:04 AM   
Massmudman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tbonesbrute

for ur eiger a 2500lb would b more than enough to get u outa any situation. if u plan on a lift and 29.5s i would prolly go 3000 or 3500. i suggest a **rilla winch. they have all metal gears...are waterproof...AND guaranteed for life! u can get a 2500 for less than 220 bucks! im gettin the 3500 outback for less than $290 WITH the mounting plate for my brute.


Obviously you're new here. Read up on what Gordo has to say about the rilla winches. Not much good and the cust. svc. stinks. Oh by the way

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Post #: 20
RE: What size winch? - 10/13/2008 8:03:51 AM   
CheapCharlie

 

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If you're going with Viper, it's only 10 bucks more to go from the 2500 Viper max to the 3000 viper max. Well worth the 10 buck. The 2500's are also back-ordered as of last week at Motoalliance. Def go with the viper though.

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Post #: 21
RE: What size winch? - 10/13/2008 5:56:25 PM   
muddin450


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i second the viper winch, also as far as the snatch block goes here it is, as i work for a rigging company, if you leave your winch, go through the snatch block and back to where the winch it mounted it WILL double your rated line pull and that is the facts, if you want pics from a rigging winch will be glad to post them.

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Post #: 22
RE: What size winch? - 10/13/2008 6:15:41 PM   
Massmudman


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quote:

ORIGINAL: muddin450

i second the viper winch, also as far as the snatch block goes here it is, as i work for a rigging company, if you leave your winch, go through the snatch block and back to where the winch it mounted it WILL double your rated line pull and that is the facts, if you want pics from a rigging winch will be glad to post them.

I agree with the x2 Rated Line Pull with a single pulley, but most people mistake the fact that their 2500# winch witt magically turn into a 5000# one.

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Rerouted vent lines
HMF Swamp Series
EPI Clutch Kit
HL Lift & Springs
Pull Start Leak Shield
Honda By Moose Skids & A-arm Guards
Dual 3000# Viper Winches / Front and Rear
60" Fisher Plow
Custom Bucket Attachment
27" MST'S on HL XL2'S
HL Hitch lift
50 watt backup lights (bright)
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Post #: 23
RE: What size winch? - 10/13/2008 6:18:40 PM   
TeamMudd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: muddin450

i second the viper winch, also as far as the snatch block goes here it is, as i work for a rigging company, if you leave your winch, go through the snatch block and back to where the winch it mounted it WILL double your rated line pull and that is the facts, if you want pics from a rigging winch will be glad to post them.

THANK YOU at least someone backs me up on this!!

like i said before that set up will double the pull, BUT if you go from your winch to a block and then to another tree your dealing with rated line pull...........

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Post #: 24
RE: What size winch? - 10/13/2008 6:26:16 PM   
muddin450


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massmudman and teammudd, i think we are all on the same page now

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Post #: 25
RE: What size winch? - 10/13/2008 6:32:54 PM   
Massmudman


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I will try this so everyone can be on the same page. 

A single pulley changes the direction of the lifting force. For  example, if you are lifting a heavy object with a single pulley anchored to the ceiling, you can pull down on the rope to lift the object instead  of pushing up. The same amount of effort is needed as without a pulley, but it feels easier because you are pulling down.







A fixed pulley is the only pulley that when used individually, uses more effort than the  load to lift
the load from the ground.
The fixed pulley when attached to an unmovable object e.g. a ceiling or wall, acts as a first class lever with the fulcrum being located at the axis but with a minor change, the bar becomes a rope. 
The advantage of the fixed pulley is that you do not have to pull or push  the pulley up and down.
The disadvantage is that you have to apply more effort than the load









A movable  pulley  is a pulley that moves with the load.
The movable pulley allows the effort to be less than the weight of the load. The movable pulley also acts as a second class lever. The load is between the fulcrum and the effort.
The main advantage of a movable pulley is that you use less effort to pull the load.
The main disadvantage of a movable pulley is that you have to pull or push the pulley up or down.






If you add a second  pulley, the amount of effort to lift the heavy object is much less .
For example, to lift a box weighing 150 N, one would need to exert 150 N of force without the help of pulleys.
However, by using just two pulleys, the person would only need to use 50 N of force.

 




A combined pulley makes life easier as the effort needed to lift the load is less than  half the weight of the load.
The main advantage of this pulley is that the amount of effort is less than half of the load.
The main disadvantage is it travels a very long distance.




BASIC PULLEY PHYSICS



This figure shows a single pulley with a weight on one end of the rope. The other end is held by a person who must apply a force to keep the weight hanging in the air (in equilibrium). 
There is a force (tension) on the rope that is equal to the weight of the object. This force or tension is the same all along the rope. In order for the weight and pulley (the system) to remain in equilibrium, the person holding the end of the rope must pull
down with a force that is equal in magnitude to the tension in the rope. For this pulley system, the force is equal to the weight, as shown in the picture. The mechanical advantage of this system is 1! 

In the second figure, the pulley is moveable. As the rope is pulled up, it can also move up. The weight is attached to this moveable pulley. Now the weight is supported by both the rope end attached to the upper bar and the end held by the person! Each side of the rope is supporting the weight, so each side carries only half the weight (2 upward tensions are equal and opposite to the downward weight, so each tension is equal to 1/2 the weight). So the force needed to hold up the pulley in this example is 1/2 the weight! The mechanical advantage of this system is 2; it is the weight (output force) divided by 1/2 the weight (input force).Each figure below shows different possible pulley combinations with both fixed and moveable pulleys. The mechanical advantage of each system is easy to determine. Count the number of rope/cable segments on each side of the pulleys, including the free end. If the free end is to be pulled down, subtract 1 from this number. This number is the mechanical advantage of the system! To compute the amount of force necessary to hold the weight in equilibrium, divide the weight by the mechanical advantage!  



Here there are 3 sections
of rope. Since the applied force is downward, we subtract 1 for a mechanical advantage of 2. It will take aforce equal to 1/2 the weight to hold the weight steady.
This figure has the same two pulleys, but the rope is applied differently and it is pulled upwards. The mechanical advantage is 3, and the force to hold the weight in equilibrium is 1/3 the weight.









When designing the system you will utilize to raise and lower a TV, etc., think about the load you plan to lift.

1. How heavy is it?

2. Can pulley positions be placed to take advantage of leverage?
Particularly important to remember is that both sides of your platform MUST be raised with identical pulley layouts.

If this isn't done, one side will move faster than the other --





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550 BBK w/ Cam Ported & Polished
K&N Oil and Air Filter w/ outerwears & DJ Kit
Rerouted vent lines
HMF Swamp Series
EPI Clutch Kit
HL Lift & Springs
Pull Start Leak Shield
Honda By Moose Skids & A-arm Guards
Dual 3000# Viper Winches / Front and Rear
60" Fisher Plow
Custom Bucket Attachment
27" MST'S on HL XL2'S
HL Hitch lift
50 watt backup lights (bright)
Dynotuned

(in reply to muddin450)
Post #: 26
RE: What size winch? - 10/13/2008 6:55:25 PM   
muddin450


Posts: 442
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline
/\ man you done some research

_____________________________

WHISKEYDICK ATV

07 RUBICON
STRONG MADE STICK STOPPERS
STRONG MADE DROP REAR RACK
STRONG MADE BRUSH GUARD
14" SS 112 WHEELS
27" STI MUD TRAK
VIPER MAX 4000 WINCH
HMF PENLAND PRO

WIFES RIDE
07 420 RANCHER

(in reply to Massmudman)
Post #: 27
RE: What size winch? - 10/13/2008 7:02:46 PM   
Massmudman


Posts: 1372
Joined: 6/3/2007
From: MASS
Status: offline
A pretty picture is worth a thousand posts.

_____________________________

2006 Black Rubicon
550 BBK w/ Cam Ported & Polished
K&N Oil and Air Filter w/ outerwears & DJ Kit
Rerouted vent lines
HMF Swamp Series
EPI Clutch Kit
HL Lift & Springs
Pull Start Leak Shield
Honda By Moose Skids & A-arm Guards
Dual 3000# Viper Winches / Front and Rear
60" Fisher Plow
Custom Bucket Attachment
27" MST'S on HL XL2'S
HL Hitch lift
50 watt backup lights (bright)
Dynotuned

(in reply to muddin450)