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THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/16/2008 11:18:11 PM   
aRance

 

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does anyone sell a bbk for these things? bigger pistons, cams, anything?.. .if so, how many cc's are added???

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/16/2008 11:35:34 PM   
bruterookie


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Not big enough for you ...

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/16/2008 11:53:46 PM   
Kratos


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Speedwerx has a bbk for it but they can't release it until the fuel programmer comes out. The fuel programmer is the golden key, once it's out, you're going to see all kinds of stuff. 

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 8:52:30 AM   
The_Brute


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Any word on when the programmer will be out? 

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 10:50:04 AM   
Kratos


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Everyone keeps saying soon, any day now, but no one knows.

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 2:06:22 PM   
The_Brute


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I see.  One of those, "it's a couple of weeks out" kind of deals... 

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 7:03:42 PM   
Kratos


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That's exactly right. By the way you quoted them perfectly, it must be common practice to hear that. I learn something new everyday.

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 8:22:45 PM   
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I can't wait....1100cc's + here i come!!!!

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 8:34:47 PM   
Kratos


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I wonder how many horses a typical bbk usually adds and what it will add to the TCat.

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 8:37:50 PM   
bustedknuckles


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I'm not sure, but I bet the TC with bbk, hc pistons, cams, and headwork is capable of 100hp.

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 9:24:28 PM   
Kratos


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If that happens, I would be very tempted to get it done. 

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 10:03:44 PM   
mac102004


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"They" would be better off releasing some kind of aftermarket ECM or CDI to unleash the power that is already available from the stock T-cat motor. These things have to be very detuned to only put out around 65-70hp.

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 10:06:52 PM   
MN TCAT


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It's still coming

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 10:26:33 PM   
fleaNtoots


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mac102004

"They" would be better off releasing some kind of aftermarket ECM or CDI to unleash the power that is already available from the stock T-cat motor. These things have to be very detuned to only put out around 65-70hp.




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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 11:13:11 PM   
Kratos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mac102004

"They" would be better off releasing some kind of aftermarket ECM or CDI to unleash the power that is already available from the stock T-cat motor. These things have to be very detuned to only put out around 65-70hp.



 

HOW CAN A 950CC MOTOR ONLY BE PUTTING OUT 66HP? BY MY EDUCATED GUESS IT SHOULD BE 80HP STOCK!!! I HOPE A CDI CAN UNLEASH IT.


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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 11:14:38 PM   
BuLLg0d


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A cdi will not unleash 80hp trust me I know

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 11:20:56 PM   
Polarisphil


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no its that with such a high cc motor to only put out 65 70 hp is bs i know it is capable of ninety without a problem them must have detuned the **** out of this thing

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 11:25:22 PM   
Kratos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BuLLg0d

A cdi will not unleash 80hp trust me I know


Well how do you unleash detuned power out of a motor because this motor has been detuned by 30% imo?

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 11:28:51 PM   
BuLLg0d


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Theres alot done as far as head work and what not to detune these engines. Clutching is a big deal on these bikes too and were still figuring that out. Speedwerx is working on unleashing the beast. We should have a motor within a week or so.

< Message edited by BuLLg0d -- 7/17/2008 11:30:26 PM >


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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 11:34:22 PM   
Kratos


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I know speedwerx is gonna unleash it. I can't wait to unlock the true potential. Hope the wife let me put this in my budget. 

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 11:34:25 PM   
charlie500

 

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No offense man but, WHAT!!!!   You want a BBK for a 1000cc you must be insane man!!!     So you became a HP addict huh?  Yeah it's kinda hard to get off the HP influence.

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/17/2008 11:39:05 PM   
Kratos


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quote:

ORIGINAL: charlie500

No offense man but, WHAT!!!!   You want a BBK for a 1000cc you must be insane man!!!     So you became a HP addict huh?  Yeah it's kinda hard to get off the HP influence.


No it's not that. These motors have been detuned to only beat the high competition slightly for liability reasons. They are not cranking out the hp's worthy of being 1000cc engine. When I race in mud against can ams, it's very frustrating to get beat because we're close in hp numbers even though I carry the "1000" name!

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/18/2008 7:51:47 AM   
LiveForMud

 

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you guys have to remember cat's idea for designing their engines... they don't build them to be high-strung, high-rpm power houses, rather they like to make more power at lower rpm with a more broad power band in those rpm. meaning they use slightly smaller intake/exhaust ports and smaller cams to beef up the low-mid rpm power. you can't have optimum power in both high and low rpm at the same time with non-super/turbocharged engine... you gotta compromise one for the other.

look at the can-am 800: at 800cc and 62hp, that's 77.5hp/liter
thundercat: 67hp at 952cc is 70.4hp/liter... thundercat is more mildly tuned

if cat were to "un-detune" the thunder cat to make 77.5hp/liter like the can-am, it would come off the factory floor with 74hp, which is a little bit much for most people. if you're familiar with the street scene, 85hp/liter isn't uncommon with a well-tuned, good mannered engine... so some small mods like a decent port job on the head and some hotter cams (~20 degrees more duration and a little more lobe lift) and the cat 950 is a 80-85hp engine without having to go bigger in displacement (bbk or stroker). really push the limits with a max-effort port job and as big of cams as it can take (~30-40 degrees more than stock), spin it to 9,000rpm or better (which should be right at hp peak with large cams), and this engine will be making well over 90hp... and over 100hp with more displacement. dragstrip and circle track engines regularly make over 100hp/liter. heck, nascar engines (cup cars) make 900hp from 5.8 liter engines (limited to 358 cubic inches), which is 155hp/liter and they only turn around 9,000rpm (about the same rpm as atv engines). formula 1 cars make 900hp from 2.5 liter engines turning 18-20,000rpm and that's a hideous 360hp/liter (but those aren't your normal piston engines... very specialized valvetrains).

moral of the story: know what's possible, and what you're dealing with.

did anyone figure out if the 700H1 cylinders will work with on the 950 block yet? the H1's 102mm bore with the 950's 71.6mm stroke gives 1,170cc. you better hope arctic cat's new bevel gears are strong to handle that kind of beast, with the above mods, this engine could make 120hp or more. that'll cost a TON of money since it'll all be custom work at this point, but still...

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/18/2008 8:33:13 AM   
Niteowler


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I think a lot of people try to compare the Thundercat engine power to the power of the Can Am Rotax engines which really isn't a fair comparison. The rotax engines beat every other atv in their class as far as power goes. Most atv engines will probably never match the power of rotax engines when compared cc to cc of others. I don't know the secret of rotax's but their designed to be higher output than most standard engines. jmo

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/18/2008 8:42:46 AM   
BuLLg0d


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Niteowler

I think a lot of people try to compare the Thundercat engine power to the power of the Can Am Rotax engines which really isn't a fair comparison. The rotax engines beat every other atv in their class as far as power goes. Most atv engines will probably never match the power of rotax engines when compared cc to cc of others. I don't know the secret of rotax's but their designed to be higher output than most standard engines. jmo
This is true and a/c is doing there best to design a engine to compete.

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/18/2008 9:27:45 AM   
MUDTECHinc


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the way i see it is AC only wanted the Tcat to beat the can-am iun stock form. it is a pretty easy assumption that once motors are built you can throw everything else away. how many small blocks do you see at the drag strips that beat the big blocks. Also i heard the 30% detuned thing as well this leaves Ac room to bump the HP up on the Tcat to stay with the competition. Also this allows them to keep there regular drive terrain by keeping the HP where it is.

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/18/2008 9:40:03 AM   
Kratos


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I knew when our BEAST (LiveforMud) showed up, we would get some execellent info. Thanks for posting the potential of this bike so that people can see there's more to this bike than its stock form.

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/18/2008 1:08:30 PM   
Niteowler


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If I'm not mistaken the 09' Can Am Outlander 800 is supposed to have 67 hp. Look at this formula.

800 (cc's) divided into 67 (hp)=.08 hp per cc for the Outlander 800
So if CAN Am made a 950 cc Outlander.........950 mulitiplied by .08=76 hp
Multiply the .08 hp per cc for other Outlander models and the hp numbers add up.
Rotax engines have a higher output than standard engines and Can Am out powers every atv in their same class because of it. 65 to 70 hp for the Thundercats sounds about right to me. I'm not trying to burst anyone's bubble, but the Thundercats may be detuned a little but not by much if you go by the hp numbers. Arctic Cat will probably find a way to squeeze a little more power out of the Thundercats here or there down the road.

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/18/2008 1:12:52 PM   
The_Brute


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Maybe I better just remove my for sale ad for my TC.  LOL 

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RE: THUNDERCAT BBK - 7/18/2008 1:58:32 PM   
engie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kratos

I wonder how many horses a typical bbk usually adds and what it will add to the TCat.


All things equal(and they never are), a bbk provides a linear horsepower gain.  Alot depends on the compression from the bbk.  New cc/Old cc = % displacement increase.  In this case, 1170/950 = 23% horsepower gain.  Compression is slightly more complex, but for reference purposes we will consider it the same way, as a linear gain.  So, assuming this BBK uses an 11.5:1 comp ratio, and the stock tcat motor is 10.0:1(I can't find this info for verification), you gain another 15% horsepower from compression.  This is "optimum" gain from compression, and the actual gain seen will likely not be quite this much.  You have to optimize the fuel octane and spark advance for the high comp, and we don't yet have this ability on the tcat.

Overall, I'd say your looking at between 28% and 35% more power once a fuel controller is added, just from the cylinders and pistons...

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