Shimming the secondary?


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Shimming the secondary? - 11/19/2008 7:17:55 PM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

I was wondering how you guys were getting the belts to ride higher on the secondarys. Is this what is refered to as shimming? It is now stock. To make it ride higher do I need to add, remove, or what. Where are these shims located and if I need to add some are they possible to make? Just trying to get lower gearing without breaking into the diffs.

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

Post #: 1

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/19/2008 8:39:56 PM

GWC

Posts: 22408
Joined: 5/7/2004
From: Kansas
Status: offline

I think you mean shimming the primary clutch, the sleave the pulleys ride on is what you shim, basicly making it longer to spread the pulleys out and this lowers the belt giving it a lower take of gear ratio.

_____________________________

08 650H1 LE
Warn 3.0
Snorkeled,Rad racked
Custom gauges
muffler tweaked
Dynojet, slide mod, spring clipped
Dyna Tech CDI
Custom clutch kit
4.0 gears
HL springs, HL spacers
Gorilla axles
29.5 Laws, custom LE wheels
30" MLs, Black Castle Roks
05 500m
Hidden Snorkel
Dynojet,slide mod spring clipped
muffler tweaked
HL temp gauge
26" 589MTs, ITP type 6s
H.ard P.ack A.rctic C.ats

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 2

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/19/2008 11:32:52 PM

4man0822

Posts: 3439
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: God's Country South MS.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 04 400 4x4i

I was wondering how you guys were getting the belts to ride higher on the secondarys. Is this what is refered to as shimming? It is now stock. To make it ride higher do I need to add, remove, or what. Where are these shims located and if I need to add some are they possible to make? Just trying to get lower gearing without breaking into the diffs.

It is prolly the best Bang For The Buck mod you can do!!!

Along with other key mods, it turns into a badazz, kickazz combo, fo sho!!

Good luck & GWC is correct, it's the primary you do the shim mod to Brandon

_____________________________

I'm just some dumb, not plumb dumb, huh!!
My new ride= 08 750 King Quad Belt snorked, VDI, M109R injector, EPI yellow spring, 18 gram weights, 2mm shim mod(Coop 45 mod) Twin Air & Yoshi=WOW!
4 a single, she hauls!!

"STOLEN"--- 07 700 Camo King Yoshi Pipe, PC3, UNI
filter, 27" Swamp Fox Plus, ATV Audiopipe, with the Bazookas(I love this thing)& Gorilla 2500XT W/syn rope 05 500 Foreman 26"589 M+S 0n black C-4's, HMF Utility series, with jet, & UNI filter, boot guards& kimpex b

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 3

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/20/2008 1:11:54 PM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

do I want the belt to ride lower or higher on the front pulley? If it works like a go kart then I want it to ride lower for a lower gear but does it work like that? I was very dissapoionted in the way the highlifter clutch kit was set up.Just raising the rpms it takes for the clutch to engage is not the way I really wanted to go. And 120 bucks for 6 springs and a bolt is kind of ridiculous these guys are making a killing off of us. Sorry to talk bad on their forum but the truth is the truth. Is their any way to get the belt to ride higher on the secondary pulley.

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

(in reply to 4man0822)

Post #: 4

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/20/2008 2:20:38 PM

GWC

Posts: 22408
Joined: 5/7/2004
From: Kansas
Status: offline

shimming the primary clutch , it will lower the belt in the primary and raise the belt in the secondary.

also if you still have the stock rollers in place you could take them out press the steel part out of the nylon part and drill a 1/4" hole threw them to lighten them up this will help alot as well.. it will hold the motor in a lower gear ratio for a longer time , basicly make it up shift slower .

< Message edited by GWC -- 11/20/2008 3:37:38 PM >

_____________________________

Post #: 5

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/20/2008 6:51:59 PM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

How do I shim the primary?Where, how many, and where can I get the shims? Are they something I can make. I am a machinist and have access to sheetmetal workers.

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 6

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/20/2008 6:54:05 PM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

What about these key mods can I do them to my 400 and what do I do

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 7

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/20/2008 9:30:12 PM

GWC

Posts: 22408
Joined: 5/7/2004
From: Kansas
Status: offline

Dont no what this key mod is.?

but the shims i used were just from the hardhware store, i took the sleave in to the store and found shims that would fit.

Thumbnail Image

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Post #: 8

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/21/2008 8:08:59 AM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

So I put the shims in between the two halves of the pulley. Another thing. Should I put loc-tite on the nuts when I put them back on.

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

(in reply to GWC)

Post #: 9

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/21/2008 8:14:10 AM

GWC

Posts: 22408
Joined: 5/7/2004
From: Kansas
Status: offline

yes pull the sleave off put the shim in and put the sleave back on.

YES use RED loctitie on the big but if you dont it could back off and cause damage.

_____________________________

Post #: 10

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/21/2008 10:39:14 AM

4man0822

Posts: 3439
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: God's Country South MS.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 04 400 4x4i

What about these key mods can I do them to my 400 and what do I do

I was actually meaning pipe, jet kit, clutch kit, & filter along with the shim!!

_____________________________

I'm just some dumb, not plumb dumb, huh!!
My new ride= 08 750 King Quad Belt snorked, VDI, M109R injector, EPI yellow spring, 18 gram weights, 2mm shim mod(Coop 45 mod) Twin Air & Yoshi=WOW!
4 a single, she hauls!!

"STOLEN"--- 07 700 Camo King Yoshi Pipe, PC3, UNI
filter, 27" Swamp Fox Plus, ATV Audiopipe, with the Bazookas(I love this thing)& Gorilla 2500XT W/syn rope 05 500 Foreman 26"589 M+S 0n black C-4's, HMF Utility series, with jet, & UNI filter, boot guards& kimpex b

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 11

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/21/2008 12:19:12 PM

GWC

Posts: 22408
Joined: 5/7/2004
From: Kansas
Status: offline

oh yeah if you have not done those things yet i would say get it done the pipe and rejet will make a difference in power for sure.

_____________________________

Post #: 12

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/21/2008 4:49:57 PM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

I am going to fab a pipe. I have all the resources to make it bolt up to stock and I am going to keep my stock pipe for hunting season. I was going to get a uni air filter because I heard K&N let too much through. All of this being after I recover for christmas. I have already started working on the pipe. Do the shims need to have an i.d. big enough to slide over the sleeve or does the sleeve nee to but up against the shim. Thanks for being so helpful.

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 13

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/21/2008 4:52:06 PM

GWC

Posts: 22408
Joined: 5/7/2004
From: Kansas
Status: offline

You want the shims to be the same size as the sleave I.D and O.D. , yes it butts up against the sleave.

_____________________________

Post #: 14

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/21/2008 8:22:47 PM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

As soon as I get the new secondary in the mail I will do this Mod as I go back together with it. Thanks GWC for all of your help and patience. Also going to do the rollers as well.

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 15

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/22/2008 10:36:28 PM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

GWC I know you said (on the rollers) press out the steel bushing. Do I keep the nylon or the steel. And when I drill do I go through both of the wall or just penetrate one side of the roller.

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 16

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/23/2008 9:33:22 AM

4man0822

Posts: 3439
Joined: 5/8/2007
From: God's Country South MS.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 04 400 4x4i

GWC I know you said (on the rollers) press out the steel bushing. Do I keep the nylon or the steel. And when I drill do I go through both of the wall or just penetrate one side of the roller.

Yes, you have to keep the nylon sleeve, drill all the way through both sides of the steel, if not, you're gonna be drilling twice as many holes!

This is a cheap way to lighten your rollers to get into the rpms sooner! Hope this helps & good luck bro

>>>>>>>

< Message edited by 4man0822 -- 11/23/2008 9:34:43 AM >

_____________________________

I'm just some dumb, not plumb dumb, huh!!
My new ride= 08 750 King Quad Belt snorked, VDI, M109R injector, EPI yellow spring, 18 gram weights, 2mm shim mod(Coop 45 mod) Twin Air & Yoshi=WOW!
4 a single, she hauls!!

"STOLEN"--- 07 700 Camo King Yoshi Pipe, PC3, UNI
filter, 27" Swamp Fox Plus, ATV Audiopipe, with the Bazookas(I love this thing)& Gorilla 2500XT W/syn rope 05 500 Foreman 26"589 M+S 0n black C-4's, HMF Utility series, with jet, & UNI filter, boot guards& kimpex b

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 17

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/23/2008 8:20:59 PM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

when i press the steel out of the nylon bushing do I put it ack together with the nylon as rollers or the steel as rollers.

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

(in reply to 4man0822)

Post #: 18

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/23/2008 8:48:03 PM

GWC

Posts: 22408
Joined: 5/7/2004
From: Kansas
Status: offline

Yes press the steel part out of the nylon, drill the steel part out then press the nylon part backover the steel part and re-install.

i drilled a 1/4" hole in one side and out the other for a total of 2 holes.

_____________________________

Post #: 19

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/24/2008 12:41:46 AM

truponycar2

Posts: 257
Joined: 12/26/2006
From: Cordova, TN
Status: offline

I did the secondary mod and drilled the primary rollers. It made a HUGE difference. The only problem I had was shimming the primary. I couldn't find anything to shim it with. Where exactly did you get them from? Can you give me any details about them (id, od, thickness)? Maybe a P/N? Thanks for any info!

_____________________________

'07 AC 500 Auto
2500# Warn Winch
Front Brush Guard
Rear Bumper
Snorkels
Carb Slide Mod
Exhaust Mod
27x10x12 & 27x12x12 Mud Bugs
Clutch Mods

(in reply to GWC)

Post #: 20

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/24/2008 8:21:46 AM

GWC

Posts: 22408
Joined: 5/7/2004
From: Kansas
Status: offline

I took the primary sleave to the hardware store and found a shim that was the right size for it..

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Post #: 21

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/24/2008 8:35:40 AM

ibrokeit

Posts: 275
Joined: 6/11/2008
From: tifton, ga
Status: offline

the shim cant be over 2mm thick. i found that a hardened steel washer from johndeere parts works fine. i think it was a 3/4" the os diameter is more important than the inner, you can use a dremmel or rasp to open it up. i think the od was 32mm

_____________________________

09 Can-am 800r xt camo-pipe lift-29.5 laws-1 1/2" spacers-snorkeled-SC pipe-Dalton-K&N-crank vent mod

07 brute 750-28"ZILLAS on 112"s, 2"lift, snorked,moose module,uni filter, maroon/red clutch springs.

07 king 700-pc3, 3"lift,custom bumpers, snorkeled, 29.5 laws,coop 45 mod 1.5mm, rear seat w/foot rest,stereo in da trunk.

(in reply to GWC)

Post #: 22

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/24/2008 5:56:58 PM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

I founf something to shim it with in the electrical isle at lowes. How thick is 2mm in standard. Why can it be no thicker than 2 mm. What I got is called a reducing washer. It was around the conduit. What exactly is the secondary mod. Will it give me more low end or high end? I will drill the primary rollers tomorrow as I start back together with it. I got the new secondary in the mail today. Back together tomorrow. Thanks for the help.

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

(in reply to ibrokeit)

Post #: 23

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/24/2008 6:44:06 PM

jp61092

Posts: 32
Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: offline

hey 04 400 4x4i how r u making ur exhaust? i to want to change my pipe but they dont sell anything for the 03's

_____________________________

2003 AC 400
-hl springs
-epi purple secondary
-26" mudlites on delta black rims
-k&n filter with pre-filter
-2500lb warn winch
-raider handguards
-AC front and rear bumpers
-dynojet

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 24

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/24/2008 7:19:18 PM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

I actually have an exhaust canister from a yamaha r6 crotch rocket and also a canister from a yfz 450. I am going to take both to work with me and see what the inside look like and go from there. My muffler has the flared end with the donut gasket and springs. I have a flaring machine at work I can use and will weld some hook points for my springs. I will gut the insides and make something to go in it. I thought about making something removable for riding and then put it back in during hunting season(the internals of the muffler) I think you can remove the spark arrestor from the yfz muffler and have it hollow. dont know how it will sound but it beats 300 bucks for a slip on.

I fabricate stuff for a living and it will take maybe 2 hours to make something with the correct tools you need.( from scratch) These guys selling these aftermarket pipes are making a killing. The only reason I didnt go with a tractor muffler is because I wanted it to look like it came from a factory. I have the means to do that but if I did not I would already have a pipe from tractor supply on mine.

You can find factory nuffler and make a new cap for the end to fit your headpipe. From what I see in the diagram it just clamps on. Hope that helped.

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

(in reply to jp61092)

Post #: 25

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/24/2008 9:36:00 PM

jp61092

Posts: 32
Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: offline

thanks for the help.. by the way wat is a tractor muffler?

_____________________________

2003 AC 400
-hl springs
-epi purple secondary
-26" mudlites on delta black rims
-k&n filter with pre-filter
-2500lb warn winch
-raider handguards
-AC front and rear bumpers
-dynojet

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 26

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/24/2008 9:43:19 PM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

I read engie's write up at the top of the page and I am guessing after I preload the secondary spring(secondary mod) I should put it back together and see how low the belt rides before I try and shim the primary? I also read there GWC where you removed your shim after you tried it. Should I go ahead and drill the rollers or ride it and see how it acts. It ran 55 bone stock and after the clutch kit it ran bout 48 49. I did not like the way the clutch felt with the epi primary springs so I went back stock. It was jumping and the belt would bark. It also seems like it would do more harm than good snatching like that. So should I try it with out drilling the rollers first or go ahead and do it.

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 27

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/24/2008 9:47:24 PM

04 400 4x4i

Posts: 189
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline

They sell them at tractor supply for 30 to 50 bucks. They fit small horsepower tractors. Start a thread about them and their are some guys on here that swear by them. They are cheap and they give some atvs a deep throaty sound. Some sound like a sick dog being choked. Some people put glasspack mufflers on theirs and if you want it to be loud all of the time you can modify your stock pipe. Gwc did his and there are some pics floating around on here of it.

_____________________________

ARCTIC CAT
04 400 4x4i
Gorilla Axles
Warn winch
Sittin' on factory wheels and tires.
EPI Clutch Kit
rollers drilled
primary shimmed
secondary spring mod
Stock pipe modded
kimpex rear "lounger"

99 Polaris Trail Boss 250
old faithful

Kids: 05 Kazuma Falcon 90
Gutted Exhaust
drilled jets
bout to get some big tires.

There is a fine line between cocky and confidence. I walk it everyday!!!

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 28

RE: Shimming the secondary? - 11/24/2008 11:01:36 PM

jp61092

Posts: 32
Joined: 10/17/2008
Status: offline

yea thanks i say gwc's and i would def like to do that but i have to wait because im learning how to weld..hopefully

_____________________________

2003 AC 400
-hl springs
-epi purple secondary
-26" mudlites on delta black rims
-k&n filter with pre-filter
-2500lb warn winch
-raider handguards
-AC front and rear bumpers
-dynojet

(in reply to 04 400 4x4i)

Post #: 29