New Venom winch

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New Venom winch

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New Venom winch - 7/22/2008 2:31:56 PM

motoalliance

Posts: 214
Joined: 2/27/2007
Status: offline

Hi Everyone,
I've been checking up on the competition and I see that VENOM....run by the guy (Matt) who used to work for us at MotoAlliance....has a 4500lb winch that he calls a UTV winch. It comes with a Dyneema cable and some free accessories.

Matt takes very good pictures and does some pretty slick marketing. However there seems to be some misinformation/misdirection in what is said. He particularly takes aim at us.....so I figure it might be helpful to both give him his props and clarify some things related to the winch....if nothing else to defend our product I suppose

PROPS
1. GREAT pictures. He's always been really good at that.
2. Is offering a free steel cable/roller fairlead with a winch that has the synthetic line on it. He is also now including a snatch block. These are nice features. We already offer the snatch block, and we also include a winch cover.

NEEDS TO CLARIFY
1. That does not appear to be a picture of our spool....our spools are gray. This appears to be a straight-up lie.

2. His synthetic line is along the lines of the APE winches....not AMSTEEL-BLUE. I know his supplier in China and that supplier has offered me the same winch line. We will not take it because it does not have the patented SAMTHANE coating that makes AMSTEEL-BLUE what it is in terms of abrasion resistant and environmentally-resistant. A Dyneema material is used in all these ropes, but it should be properly coated.

3. The idea of a "UTV-only" winch is a good marketing idea, but is not true. There is no industry standard suggesting a UTV or ATV winch. It is about power and capacity, so this seems to be sheer marketing misdirection. Kind of ironic since he has other 4500lb VENOM winches that are very similar to ours but he has no problem selling these for UTV's. Even an APE 3500lb or 4000lb winch (even though they are not waterproof) will work fine for a UTV application.

I have to admit this kind of false marketing really irks me because many people end up believing it. I love the competition, but I hate flat dishonesty. We have people calling in asking about "BLUE STEEL" because of the APE winch's marketing ploy, and now we'll probably take calls on whether or not our winches work for UTV's.
But I hope this means we must be doing something right for him to take some pretty extreme shots at us.
Would love some feedback. It helps our company a lot to hear the pros and cons of the different stuff out there -- and the way it is marketed -- including ours.

On a completely separate note, our new VIPER ELITE series (named by this board) is still on track for September 1st. Can't wait to get them up and running.

Take care.

Peter
CEO
MotoAlliance

< Message edited by motoalliance -- 7/22/2008 8:37:57 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: New Venom winch - 7/22/2008 2:37:22 PM

devildog12210

Posts: 1697
Joined: 7/15/2007
From: Drummonds, TN
Status: offline

Hey Peter you guys just keep doing what you do and you will continue to have customers for life. Thanks for posting and clearing up what could easily be confused. I look forward to continue to do buisness with you.

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(in reply to motoalliance)

Post #: 2

RE: New Venom winch - 7/22/2008 8:47:42 PM

riblet

Posts: 381
Joined: 1/23/2008
From: Katy, TX
Status: offline

Peter,

I don't remember seeing a winch cover w/ my max 3000. I'll have to check the box again. Other than it was easy to install and I plan on giving it a good test in about a week. Great customer service btw.

_____________________________

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29.5 Outlaws
Viper winch w/ green amsteel
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1" spacers
snorkel in pod
rad relocate
split audiopipe
RD Bar Ends
RD fairlead
Death Grips

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Post #: 3

RE: New Venom winch - 7/22/2008 9:05:03 PM

motoalliance

Posts: 214
Joined: 2/27/2007
Status: offline

Thanks for the feedback.....sorry for the misunderstanding on the winch cover....we offer them standard for the MX3500-MX4500 winches right now....the line in competition with Venom. They will be standard on our MX2000-MX3000 winches by August 20 or so. If you want to give us a call, though, we can send one out to retrofit your MX3000 for half-price or better. Take care.

Peter / Moto

(in reply to riblet)

Post #: 4

RE: New Venom winch - 7/23/2008 7:02:15 AM

gfunk

Posts: 84
Joined: 6/20/2008
Status: offline

Should I order the MX3000 now or wait for the elite?? what will the differences be and any idea on pricing? thanks man.

(in reply to motoalliance)

Post #: 5

RE: New Venom winch - 7/23/2008 9:24:38 AM

riblet

Posts: 381
Joined: 1/23/2008
From: Katy, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: motoalliance

Thanks for the feedback.....sorry for the misunderstanding on the winch cover....we offer them standard for the MX3500-MX4500 winches right now....the line in competition with Venom. They will be standard on our MX2000-MX3000 winches by August 20 or so. If you want to give us a call, though, we can send one out to retrofit your MX3000 for half-price or better. Take care.

Peter / Moto

No problem Peter. I don't need a cover, I was just curious if I was missing something. I would like the bushing kit though. I'll call you for that.

_____________________________

06 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
29.5 Outlaws
Viper winch w/ green amsteel
2" lift
1" spacers
snorkel in pod
rad relocate
split audiopipe
RD Bar Ends
RD fairlead
Death Grips

(in reply to motoalliance)

Post #: 6

RE: New Venom winch - 7/23/2008 10:40:20 AM

motoalliance

Posts: 214
Joined: 2/27/2007
Status: offline

-I did some further research on the "UTV" winch now offered by Venom. Horsepower, gears, etc are all the same as his "ATV" winches. The only difference I can see is that the wider spool can hold about 5 more feet of cable. I think we will probably supply a few of these style winches just to stop the marketing games. Maybe we'll call them "SPECIAL EDITION MAX" or something....open to suggestions on that. We will put AMSTEEL-BLUE synthetic lines on them that are protected by the proprietary SAMTHANE coating....that will be the main difference from his generic Dyneema line (Dyneema refers to the type of fiber made in most synthetic ropes....it is generic and can be coated for superior protection such as the AMSTEEL-BLUE lines.)

-GFUNK: The ELITE will have a premium motor system designed by the people who work with RAMSEY winches. It will have a quieting greasing mechanism as well. Power should be similar, but it is coming complete with a 9300lb line of genuine AMSTEEL-BLUE and a wireless remote switch as standard. There are a few other misc. features, but those are some of the best. It's going to be quite a winch, but the price point will also be in the high $200's for the EL3000lb as opposed to low $200's for the MX3000 with AMSTEEL-BLUE (that price assumes a winch mount is needed.) The ELITE will be available up to 4500lbs.

-RIBLET: Yes, please call about the bushings. They will be excellent. Our tech did confirm yesterday that the bushings can upgrade the VENOM winches as well. He is working on the APE winches next. It's fun to see Kent's design starting to work! It'll be great to offer a solution to any gap between housing and spool.

Thanks everyone.

Peter / Moto

(in reply to riblet)

Post #: 7

RE: New Venom winch - 7/23/2008 11:08:50 AM

let_it_be_known

Posts: 1647
Joined: 11/9/2004
From: Gulfport,MS "the dirty dirty"
Status: online

Peter,
I got my new contactor in and swapped it for the old one. It was definitely burnt. took it apart and it was full of sand and water. The new contactor looks way better than the old. looks like it will hold up and better sealed. i went ahead and wiped the edges where everything seals together with some silicon just to make sure we don't have the problem with it getting wet. i tested it out the night i put it on and boy it works GREAT! THANKS FOR YOUR GREAT SUPPORT AND FAST SHIPPING ON THE CONTACTOR. Talked my buddy into going with the same winch as i put on my RZR also.

_____________________________

FOR SALE: polaris a-arms, axles, wheels

2008 BLACK Polaris RZR 3" Extreme lift, 30" XXLs, 14" SS 112s, bumpers, snorkels, rocksliders, winch.

2005 POLARIS 800 EFI 6" g0ri!!a, heelclicker, warn 3.0. 29.5 laws, black itp wheels,relocated radiator,highlifter temp gauge, techclusion, rear bumper, front brushguard, snorked

2008 GMC CBSB DURAMAX FULLY LOADED.. 6" BDS lift 20" INCUBUS POLTERGIEST W/ 35" TOYO MT.. 3 STEP NFAB NERF

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Post #: 8

RE: New Venom winch - 7/23/2008 11:17:17 AM

CY U Slingin

Posts: 52
Joined: 7/20/2008
From: Prairieville, LA
Status: offline

I spoke to Kent yesterday and my winch is coming back this week loaded with new parts and
ready to work. Peter thanks for staying on this board and helping out customers.

_____________________________

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Post #: 9

RE: New Venom winch - 7/24/2008 11:05:17 AM

motoalliance

Posts: 214
Joined: 2/27/2007
Status: offline

Well we decided the best way to deal with Venom's marketing scheme is just to start supplying the same kind of winch with a wider spool to make him change all his claims. We ordered a very small quantity and maybe we'll call them MX4000 "Special Edition" or something. The only difference in the winches is the 5 feet of additional cable. But we've already had questions related to his marketing claims and the best (cheapest) way to deal with this is just to offer the same winch instead of getting lawyers involved with slander and all that. Yukkkkk...I hate this part of business but it is a reality.

At least we will offer this edition with an AMSTEEL-BLUE cable and then include winch covers, linesavers, etc. They'll be here in about 10 weeks.

On a separate note, I've been doing a lot of research on synthetic cable lines since this is where the industry is headed in the years ahead. Here is some (helpful?) information as people are making their purchases.

1. "DYNEEMA" is the generic type of rope that many winch lines use. It has a very strong breaking strength and is lightweight. Venom uses a generic Dyneema on their new line and I'm assuming will have it for their other winches at some point.

2. "BLUE STEEL" is simply the same kind of generic "dyneema," but the APE guys decided to name their dyneema for marketing purposes. "Blue steel" is not an industry name and I'm assuming they named it this to make it sound like AMSTEEL-BLUE, but I don't know for sure. We have had a lot of calls on the confusion here....but again, same generic dyneema....marketed name.

3. I don't know what kind of rope WARN uses for their lines. They don't seem to say much about it.

4. We've decided to stick with AMSTEEL-BLUE. It is U.S. made and is regulated by a patented process. Basically, AMSTEEL-BLUE ropes are "dyneema" fiber but they are covered and protected by a special urethane coating process called SAMTHANE....this whole things is all patented and cannot be duplicated.

The main concern with a winch rope is that it would get snagged or fray which would greatly reduce its breaking strength while also allowing environmental elements (water, sand, silt) into the line and possibly causing rot. The AMSTEEL-BLUE Samthane urethane covers the rope and makes it HIGHLY abrasion resistant and the rope should last for years. I think the best analogy would be laying hardwood floors....one wouldn't install hardwood in their house and then leave it exposed to the elements. The polyurethane coating protects it....the same idea with the SAMTHANE coating on AMSTEEL-BLUE ropes.

Right or wrong, we've decided to be as well-priced as possible with our products without sacrificing the quality. I know I would rather pay a bit more to get something that works right. I bought a LAWN BOY mower last summer and the thing is a piece of junk. I'm out $299 (if I remember right) and now I have to go spend the $400-$500 on a Toro or Honda that I should have spent in the first place. We're trying to take that same philosophy with winches. I would rather offer AMSTEEL-BLUE because it works right then get the cheaper stuff.

< Message edited by motoalliance -- 7/24/2008 4:44:24 PM >

(in reply to CY U Slingin)

Post #: 10

RE: New Venom winch - 7/24/2008 11:30:36 AM

LaGrizzly

Posts: 601
Joined: 4/6/2008
From: Southeast Louisiana
Status: offline

My neighbor just recieved his Viper Max 3000 today. UPS just dropped it off. We will be installing it today.

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Post #: 11

RE: New Venom winch - 7/24/2008 4:40:28 PM

outdrsmn82

Posts: 1086
Joined: 12/24/2007
From: NEW IBERIA, LOUISIANA
Status: offline

peter keep up the great work you and your crew and i will be coming back and also will continue to send customers your way. i hate those kind of ppl you know the type..........A

.
if you aint doing something right or are a direct threat to someone, then noone will have a reason to hate on you. keep it up.

how was the vacation?

_____________________________

06 AC 400M
BRUSH GUARD
FRONT BASKET
REAR SEAT
GUN RACK
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VAMPS
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55W HID LIGHTS
1 1/2" SPRING SPACERS
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