MST vs. Swamp Witch review:
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MST vs. Swamp Witch review:

 
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MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 12:45:18 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		Me and NWbearcat finally got time to get some good pics and info for this review. The ride review will be postponed until better weather. We had a bad ice storm followed by a lot of snow so any tire just spins. But here is the hard facts and info. We will continue to update this as the weather changes and we test in different conditions. As far as the snow review goes. They both spin equally.  
 
So i don't clog this thread up with to many pics. You can see more pics at my webshots account:
http://community.webshots.com/user/turbomike?vhost=community

I have 28" MST's with 11 miles on them. NWbearcat has 28" Swamp Witches with 35 miles on them.
Both are mounted on Vision wheels: 12x7" front and 12x8" rear. MST's are 28-12-12 rears and 28-9.5-12 fronts. Witches are 28-12-12 rear and 28-10-12 front.

I will start with the front as they are the most different.

Here is a side by side mounted on the quad shot.
You will immediatly notice the much closer lug pattern of the MST's. The MST's have 44lugs and the Witches have 36 lugs. The Siping is also much different on the MST's. The picture is with 5lbs of air in the tires.





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< Message edited by gravehunter -- 12/17/2007 2:42:53 AM >

_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit
Post #: 1
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 12:53:43 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		Front Width: mounted on 7" rim with 5lbs of air.

MST: 9.125"
Witch: 9.75"

Weight: This was done using a household scale so i don't know how accurate this part is, but it shouldn't be to far off.

MST: front 28x9.5 mounted on Vision 12x7" rim with center cap. 42lbs

Witch: front 28x10 mounted on Vision 12x7" rim with center cap. 45lbs








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_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 2
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 1:00:31 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		To try and give a better idea other than looking at picture of the lug spacing we picked a point and measured on both tires.
I know you can't read the tape measure in most pics(i don't have macro on this camera) but it at least shows where i was measuring from.

Lug spacing on the MST from the points shown in the pic is 1.5"
It is 2.56" on a Witch.





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< Message edited by gravehunter -- 12/17/2007 1:03:19 AM >

_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 3
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 1:02:04 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		Here is the Witch with 2.56" spacing at the same point.


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_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 4
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 1:11:40 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		Side lugs!

Here is one pic. I have more at my webshots account. Link is in the first post.

On the front tires the MST's have every other lug extended a little over a 1/2" comapred to the Witches.

Measurements are in an upcoming post.



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_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 5
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 1:17:28 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		We measured the lugs extended length by measering from the rim to the lug.

Here is one pic to show what i mean. The others are at the Webshots account listed in first post.

I've seen posted many times that Witchs don't have side lugs, but i disagree. They do have them they are just not as long as the MST's.

The Witches have the same side lug all the way around. Rim to side lug measures 4.625".

MST's short side lugs are also 4.625" from the rim.
MST's long side lugs are 4.0625" from the rim.



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_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 6
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 1:27:59 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		The MST's do infact have a very noticably flatter profile than the Witches. To try and show this we set a level on top of the tires so you can see the gap under the level. There you will see how the Witch is more rounded.

We set the tires at different pressures and took the same pics so you can see the profile difference at what pressure you normally run on your quad.
To save having to many pics here i will post a couple and the rest you can see at the Webshots link in the first post. The pictures are labled with what pressure is in them. Both of the MST and the Witch.

We took pics and measerments for fronts at: 3.5, 5, 7, 10, and 15 psi.

This is the MST at 3.5lbs
And the Witch in the post below at the same pressure. The MST's look even flatter in person than these pics show, but its the best i could do.



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_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 7
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 1:30:17 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		Below is a pic of the Witch with 3.5lbs in it as well. It only touches the lug it sits on.

Measurements:   We used a level on top of the tire and measured down to the concrete at each psi level. With 2 people we could do this more accuratly. The front Witches ran quite a bit short.

MST at 3psi: 27" even
Witch at 3psi: 26 5/8"

MST at 5psi: 27 1/8"
Witch at 5psi: 26 11/16"

MST at 7psi: 27 3/16"
Witch at 7psi: 26 15/16"

MSTat 10psi: 27 7/16"
Witch at 10psi: 27 1/8"

MST at 15lbs: 27 3/4"
Witch at 15lbs: 27 1/2"

Width:
 
These widths are mounted with the quads weight on them.
MST 28 x 9.5" front: 9 3/4"
Witch 28 x 10" front: 9 1/16"







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< Message edited by gravehunter -- 12/17/2007 1:51:38 AM >

_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 8
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 1:55:53 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		The rear tires are not quite as different.

They both have 36 lugs on them.
The siping of course is different.


Here is a pic of them mounted up on 12x8" Vision wheels at 5lbs of air.






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_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 9
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 1:59:08 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		Here is a closer side by side look.

Weights: mounted on12x8" Vision wheels.

Both the MST and Witch came in at 48lbs mounted using our home scale. This may not be accurate but it read the same.





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_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 10
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 2:03:56 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		The lug spacing is not as noticable in the rears but there is a difference.  While the number of lugs is the same the MST's have different shapped lugs creating a closer void.

Taking the measurments from the same point on the tires the MST's have just shy of 3/4" closer lug spacing.

In this pic the MST has 2 1/8" between these 2 points





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_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 11
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 2:05:40 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		The Witch at this same point is 2.75"





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_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 12
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 2:13:28 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		Sidelugs: The side lugs are larger on the rear than the fronts.
On the rears the MST's are about 1" longer on every other lug than the Witches.

The MST's measure from the rim to the extended lug: 3.875"
and 4.375" from the rim to the shorter side lug.

The Witches are all 4.813" to the side lugs. So about a 1" difference in the back.

More pics at the Webshots link.





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_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 13
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 2:15:47 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		Sidewall pic


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_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 14
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 2:21:47 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		We used the same method for measuring the height of the rear tires as well as showing the profile of the tires.

I'll just show a coulple pics here and the rest you can see at webshots.

They were measured and profile checked at: 3, 5, 7, 10, 15lbs

This is the MST at 3lbs.



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_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 15
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 2:29:25 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		Below in the picture is the Witch at 3lbs of air.
 
The mounted widths we measured at 5lbs is:

MST: 11 5/16"
Witch: 11 3/8"

The measured heights are:
 
MST at 3lbs: 26 5/16"
Witch at 3lbs: 27" even

MST at 5lbs: 27" even
Witch at 5lbs: 27 1/4"

MST at 7lbs: 27 3/16"
Witch at 7lbs: 27 1/2"

MSt at 10lbs: 27 9/16"
Witch at 10lbs: 27 13/16"

MST at 15lbs:  28 1/16"
Witch at 15lbs:  28 1/8"


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< Message edited by gravehunter -- 12/17/2007 2:33:17 AM >

_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 16
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 2:38:55 AM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		Ok, i'm "Done" for now.  There may be mistakes in the posts, but its late so i'll check it tommorrow.

We'll keep updating this with riding reviews as the weather changes, which may be a while here in Iowa..  NWBearcat hasn't had any electricity at his house for a week now because of the storm we had.

Hope this helps out some. Please feel free to post how it could be improved or any questions you have.

_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 17
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 4:52:15 AM   
SUZUKITRASH2


Posts: 645
Joined: 5/26/2004
From: loxahatchee,florida
Status: offline 		That is a pretty informative.  It is amazing how close I thought those tires looked to each other , but actually are not even close to being the same tire.

_____________________________

2006 special edition 660 Rhino , 2004 yfz450 http://community.webshots.com/user/peanutrobber

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 18
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 5:15:44 AM   
jamie650XT


Posts: 1501
Joined: 10/31/2007
From: Newfoundland, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SUZUKITRASH2

That is a pretty informative.  It is amazing how close I thought those tires looked to each other , but actually are not even close to being the same tire.


i thought they were nearky an identical tire...and i guess with an uneducated glance like mine, they would be...lol

great review for sure as these tires seem to be compared against opne another fairly frequently.

_____________________________

2006 Can-Am Outlander 650XT
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K&N
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HL & Pipe Lift
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28" Mudzillas
ITP Type 5's

(in reply to SUZUKITRASH2)
Post #: 19
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 3:55:25 PM   
gmcz71


Posts: 8555
Joined: 5/31/2007
From: Central Mississippi
Status: offline 		Thanks for the informative pictures and measurements.
Thats really the first time Ive seen the Witches up close.

_____________________________

1998 Suzuki Quadrunner 500 - Broken
2005 Kodiak 400 - Sold
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2000 GMC Sierra Z71 - 5.3 - ecsb
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My Pics...
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(in reply to jamie650XT)
Post #: 20
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 3:55:46 PM   
sawhead


Posts: 3881
Joined: 2/23/2006
From: nebraska
Status: offline 		good job GH...look forward to the real world results!!!

_____________________________

Nebraska woods/mud/creek rider
wide open & sideways every chance i get

bf650...almond & almond springs/full pro circuit/26 terra xd on black torks/dyna/penlock

p700...almond & almond springs/27 vamp,bi claw on 4x4s/dyna/full muzzy

kymco mxu150...22 mudlites

mst/other mud trail tire review

(in reply to jamie650XT)
Post #: 21
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 4:06:21 PM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sawhead

good job GH...look forward to the real world results!!!


Yah would be nice if it would melt and thaw out some so we can ride on dirt.

_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to sawhead)
Post #: 22
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 4:30:08 PM   
dbmachine


Posts: 2777
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		awesome review on the overall measurements and appearance of the 2 tires...looks to me the only positive aspect of the Witch over the MST would be the Witch may cost a little bit less than the MST..I used to have the 28" Mst's also and they were by far the best tire ive ever owned for most all riding conditions

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 23
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 5:02:18 PM   
MY FYN 79

 

Posts: 146
Joined: 5/19/2007
From: New Holstein, WI
Status: offline 		Excellent job, keep the info coming.

I'm speechless with the height measurements you got!

(in reply to dbmachine)
Post #: 24
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 6:29:38 PM   
superz


Posts: 852
Joined: 10/26/2007
Status: offline 		it dont get anybetter than the way your doing it

(in reply to MY FYN 79)
Post #: 25
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 6:48:29 PM   
gravehunter


Posts: 519
Joined: 5/28/2007
From: Southwest Iowa
Status: offline 		Thanks for the complements guys. It was a lot of work so its nice to hear it.

_____________________________

2007 Thunder Candy Blue Brute Force 750.
Mods so far: HMF Swamp series exhaust, Dyna CDI, Venom 3000# winch, 2" centered intake snorkels. Red EPI secondary, Pink EPI primary. Symtec Winter pack, Prairie 700 handlebars. Army storage box, Moose hand guards.
28" MST's on Vision wheels, 2" SS ATV Plus lift kit

(in reply to superz)
Post #: 26
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 7:17:51 PM   
LiveForMud

 

Posts: 701
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline 		awesome review!!! great job

with the larger lug spacing, i'm thinking the witches might do a little better in the mud.

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some other stuff
!seals, !brakes, !traction, !BEVEL GEARS, !money, !sanity...


Dad's ride- 06 Foreman S 4WD

Bro's ride- 07 King Quad 450

(in reply to gravehunter)
Post #: 27
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/17/2007 7:31:40 PM   
ramdaspadhye

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 11/15/2007
From: Eastern Arkansas
Status: offline 		Who has the cheapest prices on witches?

(in reply to LiveForMud)
Post #: 28
RE: MST vs. Swamp Witch review: - 12/18/2007 10:40:31 PM   
ramdaspadhye

 

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