Energy Plan: MUST SEE
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Energy Plan: MUST SEE

 
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Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/25/2008 6:42:40 PM   
kleinwild


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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/25/2008 6:48:26 PM   
badboyprarie


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Very Interesting!!!!

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/25/2008 6:50:19 PM   
kleinwild


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Thats what I thought!

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/25/2008 6:57:31 PM   
Conradgrizz660


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Nice, those are some crazy numbers. This country has the smarts, numbers, and technology to do things like this but we never actually do it. Yeah we have a small number out there that does but its so small it dont make an effect on anything. We can talk about it all day but its when the people start to listen to guys like this and actually do it I believe then we will see a difference.

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/25/2008 7:05:07 PM   
James Chapman


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He is a smart guy....But like he said...It's gonan take worth a $^&* leadership whcih we dont have

One good thing about America is we are a capitalisitic economy...So even with a horrible government private citezens like Pickens  can make a difference....But without leadership in the Govt between the repubs and dems nothing is gonna change

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/25/2008 7:16:33 PM   
mud_dog450


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Don't let this turn into a political thread guys.

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/25/2008 7:21:35 PM   
Expat_Dude


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T. Boone is a sharp business man for sure...

http://www.dcexaminer.com/opinion/columns/TimothyCarney/T_Boone_Pickens_wants_your_water.html

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/26/2008 4:21:31 PM   
James Chapman


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TTT

Everyone should watch the vid

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/26/2008 5:02:34 PM   
electricstart


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Outstanding post ,Thanks.There is hope with the right leadership. 

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/26/2008 5:46:45 PM   
sodbuster


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Ok great Idea that has bean around for ever, but can you go out right now and fill your vehicle up with natural gas?

can you go out right now and fill your bike with natural gas?

Is natural gas renewable ?

No No and No

You can however go out right now and fill your vehicle with Ethanol!
You can however go out right now and fill your bike with Ethanol!
Ethanol is renewable in every way shape and form, and burns cleaner than natural gas.
puts every farm back on the map and puts money in every farmers pocket period.
I do believe T Boone is a Major share holder and is looking out for his best interest.
Please this is only my opinion, and I do respect others opinion .

< Message edited by sodbuster -- 8/26/2008 5:48:12 PM >


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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/26/2008 6:36:57 PM   
elkbow


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thats all good, but he does't say how much it would cost to build all the windmill arrays, conversion to natural gas costs, etc....

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/26/2008 6:40:25 PM   
kleinwild


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I doubt it would be in the billions!

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/26/2008 7:21:51 PM   
king_quadder


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Ok guys, I work for the largest fossil fuelled power generating station in North America. I do have a lot of knowledge on this subject, first of all here are some things you may not know.

1) wind power is only 10-15% reliable...meaning installing 4000mw of reliable power means 32000-40000mw.
2) for every mw of wind power it has to have a 1 to 1 backup power ie. coal, natural gas...whatever.
3) nuclear power does not have the capability to vary load, not in the way other "flexable" fuelled plants can...they are base load units.

This leaves a bit to think about, the wind is not always blowing and the wind turbines efficiency drops drasically in the summer months....air is less dense. If you have too much wind power and the power is not needed or fluctuates very quicky it throws the entire grid into a swing that ends up in a system backout. The pie chart was a nice touch but it is NO were near as easy as described. The electrical grid is a tricky topic to describe and beleive it or not very very sensitive to changes.

< Message edited by king_quadder -- 8/26/2008 7:27:12 PM >


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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/26/2008 8:01:17 PM   
elkbow


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kleinwild

I doubt it would be in the billions!


are you kidding?  from what i know, the windmills cost appromately $500,000 each, how many do you think it would take to make a different and make up the portion of the costs?

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/26/2008 8:03:01 PM   
James Chapman


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not only the windmills...the natural gas conversions would EASILY be in the billions

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/27/2008 12:36:10 AM   
gotmuddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sodbuster

Ok great Idea that has bean around for ever, but can you go out right now and fill your vehicle up with natural gas?

can you go out right now and fill your bike with natural gas?

Is natural gas renewable ?

No No and No

You can however go out right now and fill your vehicle with Ethanol!
You can however go out right now and fill your bike with Ethanol!
Ethanol is renewable in every way shape and form, and burns cleaner than natural gas.
puts every farm back on the map and puts money in every farmers pocket period.
I do believe T Boone is a Major share holder and is looking out for his best interest.
Please this is only my opinion, and I do respect others opinion .


ethanol is a farce in the USA. it will NEVER replace oil.  period.  After the election ethanol will fall on it's face because the funding that makes it viable right now will dissappear.  Then food prices will drop.


wind energy isnt going to do diddly squat, and to top it off, envirohippies dont even like it anymore(bats explode and birds fly into them).

I like how people think natural gas just started popping up out of the ground.  vehicles have been running it for decades, and powerplants have been using it for even longer.

while his motives *seem* genuine, he(like everyone else) is just out to make a $$

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/27/2008 11:23:02 AM   
Big_T


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ethanol is horrible for agriculture in this country.  Yes, it gives corn farmers more money.  The problem is that farmers start growing corn and stop growing other things like wheat, barley (no more beer!!!!) or soybeans.  This leads to food shortages and higher food prices.  The next problem is that ethanol isn't cheap either, and with the price of corn going up, with the production costs, it doesn't end up being cheaper per mile than gasoline.  Then there's a huge amount of land needed to even make a dent in the fuel supply needs.
The next problem is that livestock farmers suffer from it.  Dairy cattle require a lot of energy to produce milk.  Energy comes largely from starch, and historically the main source of starch in cattle rations is corn.  Uninformed people will tell you the DGs (distillers grains, what's left after ethanol is made from it) have just as high of a feed value as raw grains, but it's simply not true.  The ethanol process removes about 85+% of the starch in the corn, which means that the cattle have to eat 6 times as much DG to get the same amount of starch that they did from the raw grain.  Now the problem comes that they are getting too much of the non-starch parts of the corn and the ration gets screwed up. 
Meat producing farmers have other options like soybeans because beef cattle don't require the same amount of starch, but dairy farmers are having serious issues. 

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/27/2008 12:49:38 PM   
let_it_be_known


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ok. he also said we are looking at 7 trillion dollars in fuel in the next 10 years.. and we can't afford it.. but we are looking at 10 years to do these windmills??? sounds like a flop to me..

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RE: Energy Plan: MUST SEE - 8/27/2008 9:59:56 PM   
sodbuster


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Ok Big T I can understand were you are coming from and most people in these country have the exact same opinion and I do respect that.

Corn is not the way to make Ethanol, it only yields about 350 gallons a acre, there is much better ways of doing it. Just in the last couple of years enzymes have bean discovered to break down starches into sugars that can fermented
for the production of alcohol. Marsh cat tails 1,100 gallons a acre, switch grass, fodder beats, sugar beats, kelp, sugar cane, and these is just to name a few, all witch yield over triple the amount over corn.
We make Ethanol from corn in these country because we are set up for it and it works but not very well and times are changing. I really don't think and I may be wrong but as far as food shortages Ethanol is probably the last thing that could cause any Major food shortage. Last year after all the corn was bought/sold/traded, we still had 40 million bushels left over.
Take a look at Brazil self sufficient does not import any foreign oil and 90 percent of there vehicles run on Ethanol/
Flex fuel.
What I am getting at is these country is in serious trouble, crude oil no matter were it comes from is and has and always will be a toxic waist, which we burn and pollutes are only one plant we have. Think of all the miss haps from crude oil and what can never be brought back. Pollution from fossil fuels is destroying our planet and something needs to be done ASAP. Not saying Ethanol is the answer or will it solve the problem, but it will burn clean, it is totally renewable (just as long as the sun shines) we can distill it from just about anything that grows ( the cows can keep there corn) molasses works even better and is renewable. 
Fore some crazy reason every time somebody says Ethanol somebody says corn, why because thats the old way and thats the way we have alway done it, There is a much much better way of doing it, celluloses Ethanol distilling alcohol from anything that has a bio matter. There is more than plenty of ground on these plant to sustain alcohol production,  north America and its oceans  could easily sustain the production of alcohol with out using one single kernel of corn.  
One last thing, got both of my bikes on Ethanol / E85.... 85% Ethanol 15% Pump gas, and they run real real good
on 105 + octane that Ethanol produces. Ran the 500 all day on Saturday hard and I really don't think it has ever ran that good.
Please don't get me wrong, I no exactly were you are coming from, I just have done ton of research on ethanol and hold a distillers license and distill alcohol from molasses . Just two years ago I saw my first E85 pump and said what in the world is E85 / Ethanol .


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