Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide
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Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide

 
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Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 3/26/2007 8:58:24 PM   
mud_dog450


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Due to a multitude of carb related issues on the HL Forum, I figured I would start a thread to explain the basics of carburetor tuning.  This may help many of you to gain confidence to adjust your carburetor yourself.  Many people believe that carbs are very complex, but with a basic understanding of how carbs work, you will have no problem with performing your own carb adjustments.


First off, there's 2 basic fuel related problems.  You either have a rich mixture, or a lean mixture. 

A rich mixture is caused by too much fuel compared to the amount of air being used during combustion.  Rich conditions can be detected by the engine spitting and sputtering, blurbling, or acting like a rev limiter, rapidly losing and regaining power.  In severely rich conditions, you may be seeing black smoke coming from the exhaust.  The black smoke you see is actually raw fuel that is not being burnt and is being wasted.  By looking at the spark plug, a rich condition can be detected by a black, sooty plug. 

A lean mixture is caused by too little fuel compared to the amount of air being used during combustion.  Lean conditions can be detected by the engine losing power, yet retaining it's engine speed.  For instance, the engine sounds to be accelerating to higher RPMs, yet feels as if it has no power.  By looking at the spark plug, a lean condition can be detected by a white, blistered plug.


Secondly, there are 3 basic carburetor circuits:  Pilot Circuit, Mid-range Circuit, and Main Circuit.  These 3 carburetor circuits can be troubleshooted by knowing the throttle opening they control.

The Pilot circuit is responsible for throttle openings from Idle (0 throttle) - around 1/4 throttle.  This circuit consists of pilot air jet(s), the pilot fuel jet(s), a pilot screw (either fuel or air screw), and pilot ports inside the carburetor throat (a.k.a. Venturi). 

There are 2 types of pilot screws: a fuel screw and an air screw. 

The fuel screw is located on the engine side of the throttle slide in the carb, and controls the amount of fuel that is drawn into the Venturi by the pilot ports.  By turning the fuel screw out, you are allowing more fuel to pass the screw, effectively richening the mixture.  By turning the screw in, you are restricing fuel, effectively leaning the mixture.  Another way to determine whether it is an air or fuel screw is that a fuel screw has a rubber o-ring to keep air from entering the pilot circuit around the screw. 

The air screw is located on the airbox side of the throttle slide in the carb, and controls the amount of air that is drawn into the Venturi by the pilot ports.  By turning the air screw out, you are allowing more air to pass the screw, effectively leaning the mixture.  By turning the air screw in, you are restricing air, effectively enrichening the mixture. 

The air jets are hardly ever changed, so we won't go over that.  The pilot fuel jet(s) can be changed to bigger (richer) or smaller (leaner), depending upon your problem.  A good rule of thumb to use is that if you have to adjust the pilot screw more than two turns either way if it's stock setting, then you need to accomodate by changing the pilot air or pilot fuel jets accordingly.

Remember, the Pilot Circuit is only effective from 0 throttle to around 1/4 throttle.  It still functions during the rest of the throttle positions, but it's effect is minimal, and goes un-noticed.

The Mid-range circuit is responsible for throttle openings from 1/4 throttle - 3/4 throttle. 

This circuit is controlled by 2 things: the Jet Needle, and Needle Jet (a.k.a. the Main Jet Holder). 

The Jet Needle, or needle as many call it, is attatched to the throttle slide, and drops into the Needle Jet.  All needles are tapered.  Either the Jet Needle is adjustable or it is not.  If there are more than 1 grooves for the needle clip to sit in, then it is adjustable.  By raising the clip on the needle, you are allowing the needle to sit deeper into the needle jet, which restricts fuel, effectively leaning the mixture.  By lowering the clip on the needle, you are raising the needle out of the needle jet, which allows more fuel to pass, effectively enrichening the mixture. 

When the slide raises, it raises the needle out of the needle jet, allowing fuel to pass by the needle and into the Venturi.  This is where needle taper comes into play.  Unless you are extremely fine tuning the carb, you don't need to worry about taper.  You change which part of the taper is in the needle jet by the position of the clip. 

Remember, the Mid-range circuit is only effective from 1/4 throttle - 3/4 throttle.  None of the other circuits have a drastic effect on this circuit, so if your problem is in the mid-range circuit, then it can't be the main jet or the pilot jet.

The Main circuit is responsible for throttle openings from 3/4 throttle - Wide Open Throttle (you'll see me refer to this at WOT later on).

This circuit is controlled by 2 things: the Main Jet, and the main air jet.  The Main Jet is the #1 thing that people change in a carburetor when it comes to tuning them.  This is often a big mistake, as it only controls 3/4 - WOT, and NOTHING ELSE.  Remember that.  A larger main jet will allow more fuel to pass through it, effectively enrichening the mixture.  A smaller main jet will restrict fuel, effective leaning the mixture.  With the main air jet, it allows air to premix with fuel as it goes up into the Venturi. 

The Main Jet only functions at 100% when the slide is open and the jet needle is pulled completely out of the needle jet.  At this time, the only thing restricting fuel flow into the Venturi is the size of the Main Jet. 


Now for tuning.

If you read above, you should know the difference in feel of rich and lean mixtures.  By knowing at what throttle opening the problem is occuring at, you can figure out what circuit the problem is occuring at.

If it's the pilot circuit, there are 3 basic way to tune the circuit.  You can adjust the pilot screw, change the pilot air jet, or change the pilot jet.

Adjusting the pilot screw is simple.  With the engine running at idle, warmed up to normal operating temps, turn the screw in until it starts to idle rough, then turn the screw out until it starts to idle rough, then turn the screw so it's between those two extremes.  To check the position of the screw, you can count the number of turns as you turn the screw in until it seats SOFTLY with the carb body.  Reason I capitalized SOFTLY is that the screws (especially the fuel screws) are easily damaged if over tightened.  So screw them in until they SOFTLY seat the carb body.  Compare your counted number of turns to soft seat and compare it to stock settings (stock settings are determined by counting turns until soft seat before you do any adjustments whatsoever).  Again, if you had to turn the screw more than 2 turns either way, you need to change pilot jets (air or fuel) accordingly.

In the mid-range circuit, there are 2 basic ways to tune the circuit.  You can adjust the jet needle, or change the needle jet.  Raising the clip will lower the needle, leaning the mid-range.  Lowering the clip will raise the needle, enrichening the mid-range.  You can also change the needle jet, but only if your jet needle adjustments make no difference in the way the mid-range circuit operated.  If you are running lean on the mid-range, and you've raised the needle as far as it will go and it doesn't get any better, then you should go up in the needle jet size.  Many carb manufactures don't have different sized needle jets, so the aftermarket may offer them, or they may not.

In the main circuit, there are 2 basic ways to tune the circuit.  You can change the main jet, or change the main air jet.  Changing to a larger main jet will effectively enrichen the circuit.  Changing to a smaller main jet will effectively lean the circuit.  You can determine which you need to do by first determining whether you are rich or lean.  Changing main air jets, again, is for very fine tuning.  Once you have the main circuit functioning properly, you shouldn't have to worry about the main air jet, because the air for the circuit is mostly provided by the air passing through the Venturi.  On many carbs, the main air jet is not changeable.  They may be pressed in.


So there you have it.  I basically touched base with carburetor internals and how to adjust them to tune the carb.  Every brand carburetor has different ways of accomplishing the same main goal of every carburetor.  That goal is to precisely and efficiently mix air and fuel in the right ratios for efficient engine operation.  This efficient operation comes from complete combustion, which cannot occur if you are too rich.  Whether Mikuni, Keihin, or whatever, they all do the same thing, just in different ways.  Hopefully this will help some of you to understand the functions of the carburetors internals. 

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.  Hope this helps you guys!

Lastly, you all need to know...

***This is only a reference guide.  This is not to be used as a manual for any specific carburetor, as every carb is different.  This is only a guide to be used to base your carb tuning off of.  In no way am I responsible for the adjustments, or their results, you make on your own machine.***

If anybody sees any mistakes I may have made, please let me know through a PM or a reply.  I would hate to mis-lead someone into tuning their carb wrong. 

Is this worthy of being a sticky? 

< Message edited by mud_dog450 -- 3/26/2007 9:01:11 PM >


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RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 3/28/2007 10:01:55 PM   
mud_dog450


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Since many driveability problems occur right after rebuild, I've decided to include a post on cam timing and it's effects on engine operation.  It is very common that people automatically assume that the carburetors are out of adjustment or have the wrong sized jets in them, even if they never touched the carb at all!

A Golden Rule to remember about carburetors is:
Carburetor jets do not "wear out" or "wash out", and adjustment screws do not normally work their ways out of adjustment, so if you did not perform any adjustments on the carb, then the problem after rebuild 90% of the time has nothing to do with the fuel system, rather with the mechanical aspect if the engine.  Mainly the cam timing and valve clearance.  The other 10% of the time, the carburetor has sat for long enough that the fuel inside has evaporated and the varnish has partially plugged the fuel passageways, and/or jets. 

When you are ready to install your cam back into your engine after a rebuild, line up all the marks like you are supposed to.  Install the chain, install the chain tensioner, and (this is the important part) ROTATE THE ENGINE BY HAND A MINIMUM OF 2 TIMES IN IT'S PROPER DIRECTION OF ROTATION. 

By doing this, you will:
1.  Ensure the chain tensioner is set to it's proper tension (whether it be automatic or manually adjustable).
2.  Ensure that you have not installed the cam wrong, which may cause the valves to contact the piston.   

Next, you need to reset the engine at Top Dead Center Compression Stroke, and re-verify cam timing and valve clearance. 

So if you have just rebuilt your engine and are having driveability issues, and you did not touch the carbs, chances are your cam timing is off or your valve clearances are out of spec. 

If your engine starts up and idles fine, and has troubles revving up and falls flat on it's face, then chances are your cam is advanced a tooth or two on the sprocket or your valve clearance is out of spec. 

If your engine is difficult to start up and idles very erratic, and revs up and runs smoothly at higher RPMs, then chances are your cam is retarded a tooth or two on the sprocket or your valve clearance is out of spec. 

Hopefully this information will help some of you to troubleshoot your drivability issues. 



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RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 3/29/2007 12:08:55 PM   
elkbow


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Dog, great write-up...

I want to add something about pilot screws, idle, mixture screws that will help many understand and tune the pilot and idle, this is from HMF's website:

BEFORE you do ANYTHING involving jetting or tuning do this FIRST.
You need to set the fuel screw (on the bottom of the carb between the float bowl and the intake manifold) which is usually up in a tube cast into the carb body. You will need a narrow flat blade screw driver to do this.

Some people have been just going "3 turns out" or something like that..
You need to bottom the screw (lightly don't crank it down, you'll ruin it) and while the machine is running (it should be warmed up) turn it out from bottomed out to where you get the HIGHEST SMOOTH idle. It will get hi idle then start to get rough..turn it back in until it is smooth. Then set your regular idle to where you like it.

Adjusting the fuel screw will also tell you if you are too rich or lean in the pilot jet. OUT will RICHEN the mixture and IN will LEAN the mixture.

EXAMPLE: If you are at approx. 3.5 turns out from bottomed on the fuel screw this means that the adjustability of the fuel screw is at it's maximum (it will unscrew completely at approx. 5.0 turns out), you will need to go RICHER on the pilot jet.
If you are 1.5 turns out on the fuel screw that means you are at it's minimum (almost bottomed out), this means you are too RICH on the pilot jet and need lean out the pilot jet.

IF you do change the pilot jet to a different size be sure to RE SET the fuel screw to its highest smooth idle then set the regular idle screw to where you like it.

You should also re set the fuel screw whenever the temperature or humidity change. (say 90 degrees one day and 55 the next)

On the TOP end of the RPM range if things seem to be running bad DO THIS FIRST.
Get up to the RPM area where you think things are running bad and hold the throttle at a constant position, let the engine settle into that RPM then slowly back off the throttle...if the RPM seems to pick up and the machine runs better you are too LEAN and need to richen the main jet.
OR you can (while keeping the trouble RPM steady) pull the choke, if things get BETTER you are too LEAN and need to richen the mixture, if it gets WORSE you are too RICH and need to lean the mixture.

sO, don't get all flustered when you add a pipe or filter and it won't run. Do the above and you'll be on the right track

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RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 3/29/2007 1:01:08 PM   
mud_dog450


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Also very helpful info elkbow.  Thanks for posting that information. 

I also appreciate the thanks guys.  I know many people do not enjoy helping others that have jetting problems because the questions can become very repetitive.  For the record, I am willing to help anyone who needs help no matter how simple or repetitive the question.  I am just a PM away! 

< Message edited by mud_dog450 -- 3/29/2007 1:04:17 PM >


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RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 3/30/2007 6:35:07 PM   
Mexican Mudder


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Great, they made this thread a sticky. Thanks mud_dog and elk, for the info.

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RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 4/4/2007 3:03:12 PM   
mud_dog450


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Hey yall. Got some more info for ya.

So, as many of yall have probably heard, Dynojet main jets are not exactly the same size as it's corresponding numbered main jet from Mikuni.
For example, a Dynojet 152 main jet is actually a Mikuni 142.5.

Here's a list for yall I got with e-mail permission from Chris, and Admin, from www.ds650.net

Mikuni          Dynojet

140             149.3
               150
142.5           152
145             154.7
               155
147.5           157.3
150             160
152.5           162.7
                165
155             165.3
157.5           168
                170
160            170.7
162.5          173.3
               175
165            176
167.5          178.7
               180
170            181.3
172.5          184
               185
175            186.7
177.5          189.3
               190
180            192
182.5          194.7
               195
185            197.3
187.5          200
190             202.7






Flow rates based on size markings of Mikuni and DynoJet jets are not comparable.  As a guide, the chart to the left indicates equivalent sizes based on the diameter of hole in the jet.

Mikuni jets are chamfered on the inside opening at the threaded end and Dynojets have a machined flat surface. Keep this in mind when using this chart. These physical differences will never allow an exact comparison.

This chart is intended to be used as a tool to assist you in making a more accurate decision when selecting a jet size range or comparing tuning data where an opposing brand is being used.



DynoJet jets are marked according to the diameter of the hole in the jet .. ie: DJ150 = 1.5mm and DJ175 = 1.75mm.

This is not true for Mikuni or most other OEM equivalent jets. This size Mikuni jet, (N102.221 Super BN), is marked according to its' flow rate, ie: 150 = a rating of 150 cc of fuel per minute.

< Message edited by mud_dog450 -- 4/4/2007 3:28:15 PM >


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RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 4/4/2007 5:43:47 PM   
mud_dog450


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The importance of proper float height.

As far as I know, all float heights are set with the float just resting upon the needle, or slightly compressing the needle to it's seat.  So consult a service manual for specific adjustment instructions.  MOST of the time on ATV carbs, the carb is in an upside down postion during this adjustment.  So if float height increases, fuel level decreases in the float bowl.  And if float heigh decreases, fuel level increases in the float bowl.  Got it?  Good. 

The height of the float in your float bowl is very important when it comes to driveability concers.  For example, if your float height is out of adjustment then you may experience rich or lean conditions.  This is because as the level of fuel in the float bowl changes, so does the air/fuel mixture that is being drawn into the engine. 

How?

Well, first off, a carburetor functions on pressure difference principles.  We won't go into specific principles, but if yall want to study up, do a Wikipedia search of Bernoulis Principle.  Just know that in theory a higher pressure ALWAYS goes to an area of lower pressure. 

As yall know, yalls carburetors have vent lines.  These vent lines are manditory so that areas such as the float bowl and the underside of the slide diaphragm always have an Atmospheric Pressure (referred to as AP for the rest of this topic) of 14.7PSI (at sea level, it varies with altitude but it's not important).  If these vent lines do not work, then air cannot replace the evacuation (fuel being drawn from float bowl) of fuel.  Why is fuel drawn from the float bowl?  Keen on keepin on...

As air velocity (speed) increases in the throat of the carb (Venturi), it's relative pressure is reduced.  Velocity increases as engine speed increases, mainly with throttle positions.  Any pressure under 14.7 PSI )at sea level) is known as vacuum.  As vacuum is created inside the Venturi, the AP that is applies on the fuel in the float bowl "pushes" the fuel from the float bowl into the Venturi.  It does this because the higher pressure (AP) moves to the area of low pressure (vacuum) that is in the Venturi.  But it's not actual pressure that moves, it's actually the fuel that the pressure acts upon. 

So, how does this all tie in with float levels? 

If you have a high float level (low fuel level), then in theory you will have a leaner air/fuel mixture.  This is because the amount of vacuum in the Venturi cannot draw as much fuel into the Venturi as it would with a correct fuel level.  The weight of the fuel also helps.  With less fuel in the float bowl, you have less fuel pressing down on itself which also makes it more difficult for fuel to be drawn into the Venturi because the AP has to work harder to "push" the fuel up into the Venturi.

If you have a low float level (high fuel level), then in theory you will have a richer air/fuel mixture.  This is because the amount of vacuum in the Venturi can draw more fuel into the Venturi than it would with a correct fuel level.  The extra weight of the fuel in the float bowl helps the AP "push" the fuel up into the Venturi.

So where does this all tie in with tuning?

Well, say you have let your bike sit for awhile and you tear it apart to clean it.  When you are turning the carb over to clean it and such you drop it on the float and you accidentially bend the float tang but you don't know it.  Or, when you remove the float bowl to clean the needle/seat assembly, you accidentally bend the float tang that varies the height of the float.  You don't notice this either, so when you go to start the bike up, it runs badly either rich or lean. 

So how do you adjust it?  The float tang.  Some carburetors do not have metal float tangs and therefore are not adjustable.  So if yours is adjustable, then follow the instructions in your service manual.  They are basically the same, but the specs are what vary.

There is one more way, however, that even without ever going into a carburetor, the float height may become out of spec.  This is through wear of the rubber needle tip against its brass seat.  After repeatedly coming in contact with the brass seat, the rubber needle tip forms a ring around it.  Over time, this ring becomes deeper and deeper.  As it becomes deeper, the needle has to seat itself deeper and deeper into the seat in order to stop fuel from flowing into the float bowl.  So as the needle seats deeper into the seat, the float itself is also rising more, effectively lowering the float level which in turn enrichens the fuel mixture. 

Most of the time, it takes awhile for the needle to get this ring in it deep enough to cause a major fuel issue, but it happens.  Now you know how to fix it. 

And whenever the needle needs replacing, always replace the seat also.  This is because the soft brass material can actually allow dirt and other particles to imbed themselves into it, which doesn't seal very well, and fuel can leak.  Anyways, most of the time you can only buy them as an assembly, but if you can buy them seperately, don't.  Buy them both for the added insurance.  If you happen to have a non-removable seat that's pressed in from the factory, take a Q-tip and some aliminum polish and polish the brass needle seat to buff out any scratches from debris, and to clear the sealing surface of any debris/gunk/etc...




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RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 4/20/2007 4:42:04 PM   
BruteMan750


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Hey Mud Dog great info. I hate to ask this and I'm sure you have heard this a thousand times but it's a question about jetting...I have a 750 Brute and I put on a HMF Utility Slip on and I've had so many different answers from people I don't know who to beleive. My first question is rejetting a must? Also if not will machine run hot and burn up my motor? Thanks for any help you can provide.

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RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 5/3/2007 10:32:13 PM   
ironviking

 

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i am haaving problems with my fuel draining out of the carb by the drain hose on the bottom of carb what do i need to check for

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RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 5/4/2007 5:52:13 PM   
Mudder_N_Hell


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Okay, still having carb problems on the Grizz 686.  When I gun it from a stop, it stumbles then takes off with a fury.  I have been looking jacking with the pilot circuit thinking that since it is stumbling right off the line that must be what it is.  I think I may be going about this wrong? 

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RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 5/4/2007 8:52:49 PM   
mud_dog450


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Mine does the same thing dood.

The thing is with the Mikuni BSR42 carbs that are on the Grizzly's is that they lack an accelerator pump to help richen up with a/f mix as soon as ya stab the throttle wide open from a dead stop.  When yall crack the throttle open all the way from a stop, the engine takes a huge gulp of air.  And since air is obviously lighter than gasoline, it moves much quicker than gasoline.  So it takes awhile for the fuel to catch up to the extra amount of air that is being ingested into the motor so an accelerator pump cures that. 

So, yall can do one of two things.

1.  Yall can sacrifice the low end grunt of a wide open throttle at a dead stop and the bike will idle fine...

-or-

2.  Yall can sacrifice proper idling for the low end grunt of a wide open throttle at a dead stop... 

Basically, you need more fuel when ya stab the throttle from a dead stop.  In order to cure the problem yall are experiencing, the pilot circuit needs to be opened up ALOT.  I'm not just talkin bout the pilot jet though.  Inside the throat of the carb right underneath the throttle plate there are 3 very tiny holes.  They are called pilot bypass ports.  Basically, they help the transition from a fully closed throttle plate to a open throttle plate by allowing extra fuel to enter the throat to help richen the a/f mix when ya stab the throttle.  They basically act as a accelerator pump for a CV carb, but on a much smaller scale.  So, ya can increase the pilot jet size but to really get all the good effects, ya really should increase the orifice size of the pilot bypass ports.  But stock they are at .8MM so they should be slightly increased but not too much.  If yall get them too big then the fuel coming from them will not properly atomize and will not properly mix.

So the best bet would be to find a happy medium but it would take alot of tuning and playin around with.  And also if ya play around with makin the pilot bypass ports different sizes, then ya really can't make them smaller if ya got em wrong.  Yall would hafta buy another carb body in order to experiment some more.  So all in all it would cost yall more money. 

Hope this helps ya have more of an understanding of that I believe the problem is...

< Message edited by mud_dog450 -- 5/4/2007 8:53:50 PM >


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Post #: 11
RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 5/4/2007 10:00:54 PM   
Mudder_N_Hell


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ironviking

i am haaving problems with my fuel draining out of the carb by the drain hose on the bottom of carb what do i need to check for


Check out this post.  I am having the same problem.  http://www.highlifter.com/forum/m_1943974/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#1943974

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Post #: 12
RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 6/7/2007 9:00:25 AM   
quadwrench

 

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It's been a while since I've visited this site.... I'm glad to see that ya'll have put this topic up, and had it go "sticky".

There is some very good, knowledgable information posted here.

One thing I noticed that was not mentioned, was the condition of the jet needle and needle jet - especially on the "high milage" or older quads that people re-jet - 2 stroke engines are even worse about this due to "extra vibrations" created with the 2 stroke engine. 
These 2 pieces play an important part in the correct tuning of the lower throttle on your carb.  Wear on the needle or jet oriface will cause excess fuel delivery in the idle circuit and mid-throttle range.

I have always saved the old parts whenever I go into someone's carb - resulting in a vast collection of used jet needles and needle jets. 
In this collection of parts, I can show you the throttle range the individual normally runs their quad - -

Farmer Brown will have a flattened taper towards the top of the jet needle and an enlarged rounded oriface in the needle jet as he generally putts around on his quad ...
Troy TrailRider will have a flattened taper in the middle of the jet needle and an enlarged rounded or egg shaped oriface in the needle jet as he generally uses the mid throttle when he rides....
Wayne WideOpen will have a jet needle with a thin, sharp point and an egg shaped oriface in the needle jet as he generally uses the top end of his throttle.

If you are jetting with a "Jet Kit", the majority come with a new jet needle - mainly due to the change in taper for improved throttle response (or "fine tuning") - I have yet to see any of the "Jet Kit"s come with a needle jet (these are available either OEM, or in some carb "re-build" kits... Kehin kits almost always have the needle jet, very few Mikuni kits have the needle jet).

Jetting the carb for optimum performance is a lot easier if the major components for fuel delivery in the carb are in new condition.  You are not having to compensate adjustments for worn parts.

One other thing I would like to add, when putting your carb back together, the small screws on the carb are just that - small screws... they do not require massive torque to tighten them - snug them down then tighten slightly, they are not going to fall out, and the next time you need to "get into" the carb, you won't be dealing with screws that you have stripped the heads out on.  A good quality screw driver will also help prevent stripping the screw heads - although, I just finished jetting a new Rhino that I had to drill the heads of all but one screw off, due to overtightening from the factory..............

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Post #: 13
RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 6/15/2007 8:37:53 PM   
tuck05


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Here is a list of links that have some very good info about jetting: Here are a couple links about spark plug readings
http://www.arcticchat.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11935
https://www.johnsmotorcycleparts.com/Keihin_CV_tuning_tips.htm
http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/SparkPlugFAQ.htm
http://justkdx.dirtrider.net/printcarbtuning.html

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Post #: 14
RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 6/19/2007 4:04:37 PM   
deepwater14


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mud_dog450 your a good guy you know what ur talking about

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Post #: 15
RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 6/24/2007 7:35:50 PM   
mud_dog450


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quote:

ORIGINAL: deepwater14
mud_dog450 your a good guy you know what ur talking about


I'm just glad to help! 

Anywho...

Here's alittle information on clipping the diaphragm springs on CV carbs...

Just don't do it. 

The tension spring for the slide is underneath the diaphragm cover.  The BEST bet is to buy a different spring of a lighter tension. 

The idea is that ya clip the spring, which shortens it, allowing the diaphragm to rise quicker, resulting in much quicker and crisper throttle response. 

If ya clip the spring in there, it actually makes the spring stronger.  A spring with a shorter length and same gauge of wire will be stiffer than the same spring with a longer length* and the same gauge of wire.  Conversely, 2 springs with the same number of coils and the same length, yet with different gauges of wire, will vary in tension.  But Coils Per Inch is also a factor, but that's where it all gets complicated.

* However if the spring is soo long that the diaphragm cover compresses it more than the stock spring is compressed, it will actually be stiffer, even if it has a lighter gauge wire. 

Some say clipping it works, others say it's total nonsense.  Sometimes it works, but yea, all in all, there are companies that make replacement springs that are lighter in tension than the stock one.  Just gotta do a little R&D to find find which one will fit. 

< Message edited by mud_dog450 -- 6/24/2007 7:39:39 PM >


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Post #: 16
RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 7/17/2007 10:44:18 PM   
sahlberg


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WOW....this is amazing. this is a LOT of reading, but well worth my time even if reading is one of my most hated things to do. I went through and read everything except about the float bowl level and I have a lot of confidence now. Now, I believe I won't have too much of a problem snorkeling and re-jetting any atv now.

I do have a question though. If I bought a jet kit for my recon, will the jets still work correctly in say.. a brute force or something like that? As far as threads go? I mean, the size jet may not be correct or maybe, it could be the right jet I need, will it thread in or do I need to order it specifically for the brute force? Sorry, haven't had to order anything but a jet kit for my recon so need a little help on that.

But other than that, man, I really appreciate this write up. I may have to come back to this and check back to make sure I'm doing something correct but I hope I'm as knowledgeable as mud_dog in a few years. Again, thank you very much for this write up. This helped me out so much.

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Post #: 17
RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 8/13/2007 5:08:47 PM   
mud_dog450


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Hey all.  Recently there have been many threads created regarding drilling a hole in the slide lift hole on the slide in CV Carbs.  Since a thread with pictures has been created, I am posting the link so it will be stickied with this thread so you don't have to search for it when someone asks for it.

http://www.highlifter.com/forum/Slide_Mod_instructions/m_2147681/tm.htm

Let's thank it's originator, amphibious. 

And here's alittle explanation of why this mod is done and what it does.  I copied it from a post that I created on the subject...

The air pressure on top of the slide uses this hole as a passageway to lower it's pressure enough to induce a vacuum above the diaphragm, so the atmospheric pressure below the slide "pushes" the slide upwards, raising the slide.

Drilling it out bigger results in a faster building vacuum on top of the slide diaphragm.  The faster the vacuum builds, the faster it can hit the point to where it starts lifting the slide, resulting in a faster reacting slide.  This results in a snappier and crisper throttle response. 

It's basically like changing out main jets for a bigger jet; only this allows more air to pass through it rather than fuel with a jet. 


*For search purposes, I'm adding these words to the end.*

drill slide hole

< Message edited by mud_dog450 -- 8/13/2007 5:10:18 PM >


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Post #: 18
RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 8/27/2007 3:47:51 PM   
amphibious


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note that the slide mod does not affect the air fuel mixture so you can do this without messin up your jetting. 

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Post #: 19
RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 1/4/2008 11:05:17 AM   
ragginrancher2008

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: amphibious

note that the slide mod does not affect the air fuel mixture so you can do this without messin up your jetting. 


have any of you guys heard of clipping the spring to get better throttle response?

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Post #: 20
RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 1/4/2008 1:18:48 PM   
mud_dog450


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You must not have read this entire thread. 

Read posts 16 (explains why not to clip the spring) and 18 (an alternate mod that everyone should do) in this exact thread. 

< Message edited by mud_dog450 -- 1/4/2008 1:24:00 PM >


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Post #: 21
RE: Basic CV Carburetor Tuning Guide - 1/14/2008 1:55:14 PM    <